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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 17, 2007 22:54:23 GMT -5
HEROINE is canon in the uinverse which is the intent most people who say it is canon discuss it in regards too. I believe HEROINE is canon unto itself obviously, but it is just as much canon to the GAH universe as is the whole idea of the episode DON'T MESS AROUND WITH JIM that has a previous suit wearer introduced. And fanfic would never be canon unless produced and put into the same universe: Realistically. Personally, I agree with videofox on that point. As for a female suit wearer, it didn't work once: Why would it work again unless it is too sexed up to be realistic? And Josie: O'Neil.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 17, 2007 23:11:32 GMT -5
HEROINE is canon in the uinverse which is the intent most people who say it is canon discuss it in regards too. I believe HEROINE is canon unto itself obviously, but it is just as much canon to the GAH universe as is the whole idea of the episode DON'T MESS AROUND WITH JIM that has a previous suit wearer introduced. And fanfic would never be canon unless produced and put into the same universe: Realistically. Personally, I agree with videofox on that point. As for a female suit wearer, it didn't work once: Why would it work again unless it is too sexed up to be realistic? And Josie: O'Neil. True... that's also why I say that while I enjoy writing the stories, deep down I know that my spinoff would never make it to show. (I do think Ralph's handover in "Ties" would be more realistic though as the whole "hand the suit over to someone else to make the world forget) doesn't really wash with me going by the Ralph in the series. ) And, based on the costume, I think they were really trying to oversex the new wearer's costume for the 2008 project, and given the poor quality clips shown on YouTube, I think - IMHO - it combined with other factors might have harmed it.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 17, 2007 23:19:53 GMT -5
Yes, we know, Ralph can do no wrong in your world. To me, HEROINE made perfect sense as a handover/crossover.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 17, 2007 23:35:59 GMT -5
Yes, we know, Ralph can do no wrong in your world. To me, HEROINE made perfect sense as a handover/crossover. We'll have to agree to disagree as far as the handover HD. But, no I see Ralph doing wrong: - He should never have let his ego get to him to where he was appearing on "SNL" because of the suit instead of being a mild mannered teacher.
- Ralph was such as dunderhead that he signed a petition by two people in the parking lot in his school, when even in the '80s, soliciting was not allowed on school grounds without going through the school office - and they weren't in it. Ralph deserved to be drugged with that dunderhead move.
- He was dumb enough to waste his time talking to Bill instead of finishing up his letter of apology to Knight, et. al. for leaving his tenure meeting, in fact just leaving it to begin with. He could've politely told Bill that this was private and he'd have to wait 5 minutes.
- Ralph was dumb to make the woman faint in "Train of Thought" and not check on her. She could've been shocked so much that she had a heart attack (even at her young age). Faints aren't always harmless, especially given I had one when I was younger because I was having trouble breathing. Also wound up in the hospital.
- Ralph was dumb as to straddle Bill's hips while administering CPR because he could've seriously harmed Bill or killed him. That was more of a Hollywood move, not real life because (as far as I know) you are taught to not do that in CPR classes.
- He was dumb enough to take the students into the cave in Diablo because he already had been in there with Bill and they knew it wasn't stable.
There are others, but I won't go on with the drivel. I think it might've taken him getting shot - which was partially due to his stubborness - to realize that the suit did come with great responsibility when taking great risks.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 17, 2007 23:41:22 GMT -5
I see the handover as being perfectly fine and it worked quite well. After all, getting caught in the suit is what LED to the SNL appearance.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 17, 2007 23:56:36 GMT -5
I see the handover as being perfectly fine and it worked quite well. After all, getting caught in the suit is what LED to the SNL appearance. Still loved to know how they knew. I could play conspiracy theories as to what was going on in the minds of the writers of that ep, but it's best I don't. I still think it is a stupid one because where was Bill during this? Why didn't Pam bash Ralph over the head with a frying pan to get his head on straight or forget the whole thing? Why was Holly so picture perfect and had a perfect little foster girl with the right amount of cheekiness to annoy Bill? Why did the green guys go from wanting to erase Bill's memory to letting him be a teammate when in "Vanity" Ralph could've lost the suit for Bill's indiscretions (or at least I understand it as such, given they speak in questions)? There's way too many what-ifs that make you go "A little contrived - at least go in depth with Ralph's fall from grace so the suit handover reason really fits." They should've removed the training sequence at the football field and replaced it with at least a brief sequence of Ralph's ego trip so it'd make sense. The training sequence was probably the least sensical portion of the story, as almost none of the things taught there are useful in the scenarios Bill and Holly would normally go on.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 17, 2007 23:59:12 GMT -5
Again, what we saw was edited. The whole feature as written might have made perfect sense and they were hoping it played that way on screen.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2007 0:07:53 GMT -5
Again, what we saw was edited. The whole feature as written might have made perfect sense and they were hoping it played that way on screen. I get that, but based on what they chose to put on there, there were way too many holes for it to have been considered - at least then IMHO. Would've been better if they instead chose to replace some important details (such as the ones I put above) over things such as the long drawn out search for Holly, the training sequence (at least up to the wow, is this great or what - they could've had them talking as they went down the stairs), and as much as I say it, the reminiscence from the original series (the one set to "Heroes are Human" - as it wasn't that long ago since the show was off the air). That alone might've improve the chances of it returning - even with MES as Holly, but even possibly with a new actress in the role. Now, yeah... that story might've made it, given they have/had a series on "ABC" called "Cavemen" based on the Geico commercials.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 18, 2007 0:12:59 GMT -5
It still worked just fine as a handover/crossover. Just because it was not the best pilot in history does not mean that it was not a good story.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2007 1:02:52 GMT -5
It still worked just fine as a handover/crossover. Just because it was not the best pilot in history does not mean that it was not a good story. Yeah, at least ABC let Connie come over to appear in it. I blame them a bit for not letting her do both "Hotel" and the new "GAH" as well. Maybe Katt would've considered changing his mind from staying with the "Mason" movies if Connie was able to do both. (This, BTW, is from my understanding ) Then, we would've had a great story and Holly would've been a whisp of thought.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 18, 2007 9:26:53 GMT -5
It was never going to happen, especially since HEROINE was debuting on NBC.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2007 10:39:37 GMT -5
It was never going to happen, especially since HEROINE was debuting on NBC. Back then though it wasn't uncommon to have actors do shows on different networks. There were a few, but given that a. "Hotel" was very popular at the time, and b. ABC might've had sour grapes about "GAH" going to NBC, they probably put the kibosh on it. Shame to, given that Connie only has nice things to say about "GAH." Guess to they were afraid that she might get hurt on the "GAH" set if they decided to up Pam's appearances in the show. Of course, it was regardless given that a. she does get to appear in the one ep, and b. Katt wasn't returning.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 18, 2007 10:55:20 GMT -5
It might happen as it does now with Bob Saget on CBS and NBC, but is rare you let an actor from a very successful show go to another network for another show. Guest appearances and stuff is one thing; but not full-blown other shows.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2007 14:15:40 GMT -5
It might happen as it does now with Bob Saget on CBS and NBC, but is rare you let an actor from a very successful show go to another network for another show. Guest appearances and stuff is one thing; but not full-blown other shows. Yeah, but I still think what they did to Katt and to a lesser extent Connie was poor for that pilot. Heck, just Pam expecting and Ralph wanting to be there for the baby would've been better. Then again, they'd miss the possible opportunity of beating "My Hero" (Britcom starring Ardal O'Hanlon - currently being filmed) to having Ralph literally have sympathy pains, including distended stomach as though having a baby, the weird cravings, etc.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 18, 2007 14:20:11 GMT -5
Yeah...okay. ABC was smart enough to not let her commit to both and that kept HOTEL on top and kept NBC from being able to continue the series.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2007 15:36:11 GMT -5
Yeah...okay. ABC was smart enough to not let her commit to both and that kept HOTEL on top and kept NBC from being able to continue the series. True, at least the way it was going. Now, if Katt did decide to commit back to the show (as in they went with the original idea and not "GAHeroine"), then I'd be upset because Connie does very well as Pam and she'd be missed.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 18, 2007 15:37:50 GMT -5
If they had, the show would have flopped because Bill and Ralph couldn't hold the show together without her.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2007 15:45:55 GMT -5
If they had, the show would have flopped because Bill and Ralph couldn't hold the show together without her. Exactly... because the three were a team, and one reason the Holly/Bill team failed.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 18, 2007 15:46:54 GMT -5
If they had, the show would have flopped because Bill and Ralph couldn't hold the show together without her. Exactly... because the three were a team, and one reason the Holly/Bill team failed. Holly and Bill could have worked...they were a team...just a different one.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2007 15:47:57 GMT -5
Exactly... because the three were a team, and one reason the Holly/Bill team failed. Holly and Bill could have worked...they were a team...just a different one. IMHO only - didn't have the same charm. Holly was too perfect to Bill's truer real life (and better acted) persona.
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