nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 7, 2008 14:01:50 GMT -5
So... Greatest American Hero + Captain Planet + Carmen Sandiago - Ralph and Pam + a self-involved cheer-leading enviromentalist prom queen - all credibility = Greatest American Heroine. Poor Bill. There is a level where the marketing is obviously pandered to a single demographic, and that is one of the (many) issues I have with Heroine. Like Episode One (Phantom Menace) of Star Wars, they changed the flawless chemistry that worked on nearly any age level, to that of trying to hook in a younger bent. Instead of learning about humanity from some very well developed portrayals, they focused on issues to fight against. Internal struggles to external. Deep to shallow. Mr Culp is the only reason I'd sit through those twenty minutes of out-of-character, poorly-developed treacle again. Ralph isn't Ralph, Pam gets to be PA, but can't be on long enough to finish her name, and Holly reminds me of, like, all those girls, in, like, high school, who were, deeply, like, shallow, you know? Gag me with the instruction book. Hopefully I choke.
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Post by mmderdekea on Sept 7, 2008 15:05:12 GMT -5
nsqueen, Love your math! You captured it all very succinctly. It scientifically "proves" the uselessness of GAHeroine. One of the utmost things I hate about the show is Holly slamming into 56 or so year old Bill, knocking him to the ground, and HURTING him, he can hardly stand up, and neither Ralph nor Pam nor Holly help him at all. Heck, in "The Hit Car", first episode after the pilot, when Bill is shot in the leg at the courthouse, Ralph's yell of concern is real, his dash up the stairs is urgent, and already it shows the audience see just how close these two are getting, almost against their own will! It's terrific--with all the bickering, we see they WILL be there for each other. It just grabbed me in and held me. Yet, years later in this show, poor Bill is left wallowing on his own in real pain, with TWO of his closest friends five feet from him and ignoring him (unrealistic), and a woman SO self-centered she can't see (or doesn't care about) the havoc she reaps upon an innocent bystander as a result of her faulty super powers. WHO this show was meant to resonate with I have no idea. Substituting a pathetic attempt at injury humor, with Culp struggling to get to the car to rest on (which he does very well, nonetheless) instead of confirming the heartfelt affection our characters had for each other, by having someone help him, rates at the top of the pathetic misses this failed pilot exhibited, with Ralph being an egoist, the Green Guys not appreciating Bill's help, the idiotic "planetary memory loss" deux ex machina, and Sarah the Obnoxious Brat. It's hard to screw up everything in a pilot, but in my opinion, GAHeroine came close! Mona
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nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 7, 2008 16:06:16 GMT -5
The only saving grace was Bill. I watched it for the first time last night, and paused time and time again, wondering how this thing was even passed off for production. And the only conclusion I could come to was bringing back Robert Culp to the small screen. They were tossing Connie and William out, so the only staple would be old Bill. You know, I would have rather watched 'Bill Maxwell's Fishing Hour,' sponsored by Milk Bone, than to have such a great series end on such a sour note. It's like ending the last movie by killing off all the Jedi... Oh. Well, sometimes you just have to say... SCREW CANON.
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Post by MelMac on Sept 7, 2008 16:49:56 GMT -5
The only saving grace was Bill. I watched it for the first time last night, and paused time and time again, wondering how this thing was even passed off for production. And the only conclusion I could come to was bringing back Robert Culp to the small screen. They were tossing Connie and William out, so the only staple would be old Bill. You know, I would have rather watched 'Bill Maxwell's Fishing Hour,' sponsored by Milk Bone, than to have such a great series end on such a sour note. It's like ending the last movie by killing off all the Jedi... Oh. Well, sometimes you just have to say... SCREW CANON. To be fair, William and Connie weren't tossed out - both had commitments to other shows. Katt was in the "Perry Mason" TV movies, and turned down the show to honor his commitments there, while Connie couldn't do it because she was in "Hotel" and ABC wouldn't share her with NBC. Of course, without one or the other, it'd still not been the same. I remember somewhere (I think Comic Con for that matter) Culp mentioned that he agreed to do the show as long as it was him and a woman in the suit. SJC and NBC at first hated the idea, but then conceded, and the test pilot was made. Also, if I recall correctly too, Culp had a hand in writing the "GAHeroine" script, so it does make one wonder why he didn't say NO to some of the things they did to Bill. They ruined all three characters in that spinoff, and Holly was shallower than anything. Oh - a lot of people don't consider it canon given it was a test pilot and not really meant to be shown. When it didn't get bought, however, for some reason they decided to sell it, adding the opening and closing titles to season three on it and put it in syndication as the "series finale" (which I still say is either "30 Seconds over little Tokyo" or "Vanity, Says the Preacher" depending on what one considers canon).
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nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 7, 2008 17:24:02 GMT -5
Robert Culp said that he 'was' Bill Maxwell for a while. And honestly, though everything around him was chaotic, Bill still felt like Bill. I could see him fighting to keep Ralph around, but when Ralph (what they passed off as Ralph) remained changed from the fame, I could also see it end up really hurting Bill. Though 'the odd couple' Ralph and Bill were best friends, and from personal experience, when your best friend tells you to split, it hurts like hell. Bill might have been distant from Ralph because the fame pushed Ralph (again, the not-so-Ralph Ralph) away. I think old Bill could have cared less about his rankings, he was partners with Ralph, and deep down, that was all that seemed to matter. He went from being no nonsense and closed, to opening up, the more time he was around Ralph. Bill might have been able to pair up with someone else, but I think that he might have been really hurt if Ralph were to leave as he did. Bill was a trooper. He would fight for truth, justice, and the American way until his last breath, but I don't think that he would have lasted long with Holly. I would have driven out to Palmdale to return her suit myself. I would like to see someone work through that episode and actually get the trio back together. MsBoku did do a version, but I'd like to see someone keep it set in 1986, and work through Holly, as though she were just a challenge. And yeah, instead of the fame breaking them apart, couldn't have Ralph wanted to focus on his family life? Pam could have become pregnant and when Ralph would tell Bill that he wanted to quit, Bill would keep on with the FBI, and the green guys could tag him again, after picking someone else. ... I need to go write some fan fiction.
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Post by mmderdekea on Sept 7, 2008 18:18:11 GMT -5
nsqueen119, I gotta say I agree with all your insights, which is cool. Nice to find someone who thinks the same way I do. Bill was the "one fixed point" (as Sherlock Holmes called Watson) in the GAHeroine mishmash. That's too bad, indeed, because the show was about friendships and love and life struggles and red jammies where the goodness of the characters, not the greed or ego, won out in the end. The writers and director blew it for GAHeroine. Ralph was unfairly turned into a jerk, Holly was interminable, and Sarah could be used as a negative consequence of pregnancy by any organization wishing to promote birth control. GAHeroine is not "canon" for many of us. It's certainly by no means canon for me. Mona
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Post by MelMac on Sept 7, 2008 18:29:30 GMT -5
Given SJC and NBC did not like this idea in the first place (Bill teamed up with a woman), they should've held off until they had a better idea for a suit handover or the trio was available. What we got as far as story line wasn't fair to any of the three actors from the original show and caricatured the suit wearer too.
I would LOVE to read the entire pilot script. It might explain what happened to keep Ralph and Bill away from each other. As the way it reads filmed, it looks like they both gave up on each other. Plus, it might explain why the greenguys do a 180 on Bill staying on as Holly's teammate.
Even with Bill as a fixed point, I just felt that it didn't work long term - it was best as a Ralph and Bill team. That's why the banter works so well.
Overall, I feel it'd been better done either as an entirely new team (i.e. the current "Knight Rider"), or they should've waited until all three were available to do a TV reunion movie (which was suggested by Katt in the '90s) or do what they did with the current comic books and animated series.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 8, 2008 10:33:12 GMT -5
So... Greatest American Hero + Captain Planet + Carmen Sandiago - Ralph and Pam + a self-involved cheer-leading enviromentalist prom queen - all credibility = Greatest American Heroine. . I love the first three shows in your equation. ;D
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nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 8, 2008 16:19:04 GMT -5
I always felt guilty after watching Captain Planet, like I should start recycling every sheet of paper I wasted on my frivolous writing. Pishaw. As for Carmen Sandiago, I loved the game show, but never got into the cartoon. That Rockapella theme was enough to suck me in.
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Post by MelMac on Sept 8, 2008 16:24:23 GMT -5
I always felt guilty after watching Captain Planet, like I should start recycling every sheet of paper I wasted on my frivolous writing. Pishaw. As for Carmen Sandiago, I loved the game show, but never got into the cartoon. That Rockapella theme was enough to suck me in. I think Rockapella still performs together, but I really enjoyed that group a lot. It is sad though the chief on the game show passed away a few years ago.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 8, 2008 16:52:24 GMT -5
I loved both shows...the theme song was awesome to Captain Planet. ;D
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nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 8, 2008 17:49:32 GMT -5
It's one of those heavy moral shows that showed that adults were either megalomaniacs, bent of polluting the pristine areas of the world and effecting only the cutest wildlife, or they were magical spirits, influenced by the condition of said fluffy animals. Or they were blue skinned spandexed superheroes, who always fell into toxic waste. The theme song was catchy, and all the stars that had cameos. I just don't care for shows that make me feel guilty. I recycle already, Mr Planet! Isn't that good enough for you?
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 8, 2008 18:35:04 GMT -5
Didn't GAH make you feel guilty when you were jealous or had an ego?
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nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 8, 2008 22:43:03 GMT -5
Uh, you have to have a reason for an ego. I can't : throw a baseball, ride a horse, put on cleats, or stand the circus. Ralph's got something on me, suit or no.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 8, 2008 22:52:23 GMT -5
No 99% kill record either I take it?
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nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 9, 2008 14:19:25 GMT -5
Not even on Duck Hunt, darlin'. I think that was one of the nice things about GAH. There wasn't an agenda. They weren't trying to beat us over the head with serious issues. I mean, yes, there was the Cold War, but they never ended an episode with 'The Power is Yours!'
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Post by MelMac on Sept 12, 2008 14:02:23 GMT -5
Not even on Duck Hunt, darlin'. I think that was one of the nice things about GAH. There wasn't an agenda. They weren't trying to beat us over the head with serious issues. I mean, yes, there was the Cold War, but they never ended an episode with 'The Power is Yours!' Exactly. Sure there were topics that were serious in there (nuclear war, plague, espionage, etc.) but they were part of the fantasy and fun of the show. Plus, the human nature of things added a lot to the show, i.e. Plague, Ralph kept insisting he contracted the smallpox, but he hadn't. He and Bill were worried at one point, and even Pam briefly showed concern when Ralph had a red mark on his chin - though that was actually after being punched in the jaw by Tony earlier in the day. Then again - the other fun nature there was that the whole group was stuck in the hospital for another two week isolation period when Carlisle sneezed. ;D
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Post by Ms Boku on Sept 12, 2008 15:38:25 GMT -5
So... Greatest American Hero + Captain Planet + Carmen Sandiago - Ralph and Pam + a self-involved cheer-leading enviromentalist prom queen - all credibility = Greatest American Heroine. Poor Bill. There is a level where the marketing is obviously pandered to a single demographic, and that is one of the (many) issues I have with Heroine. Like Episode One (Phantom Menace) of Star Wars, they changed the flawless chemistry that worked on nearly any age level, to that of trying to hook in a younger bent. Instead of learning about humanity from some very well developed portrayals, they focused on issues to fight against. Internal struggles to external. Deep to shallow. Mr Culp is the only reason I'd sit through those twenty minutes of out-of-character, poorly-developed treacle again. Ralph isn't Ralph, Pam gets to be PA, but can't be on long enough to finish her name, and Holly reminds me of, like, all those girls, in, like, high school, who were, deeply, like, shallow, you know? Gag me with the instruction book. Hopefully I choke. Couldn't have said it better dude(ette).
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 13, 2008 13:37:46 GMT -5
I was good at DUCK HUNT...I still am. ;D I liked it that they were trying to inspire kids with CAPTAIN PLANET. Of course, GAH was doing a different range of emotions and such, but I think both served a good purpose of entertainment and self-reflection. The problem with HEROINE: They took the wrong parts to express from CAPTAIN PLANET.
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nsqueen119
Student
Just Very Slightly Mad
Posts: 20
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Post by nsqueen119 on Sept 15, 2008 15:24:10 GMT -5
Captain Planet never sat quite right with me. There was that whole thing about the most stereotypical beautiful kids in the world getting all the power. They all spoke English (albeit with canned accents). They taught kids that the "Power is yours," but when you become an adult, the power totally rests in the hands of all the creepy CEOs that the kids fought against. And you can't even vote them out. I'd rather watch something that didn't try to bolster my global awareness by instilling a level of guilt that would eat into my very psyche driving me to a level of green madness that which I measure the worth of my very soul by how minimal my carbon footprint is. Something like GAH... And Muppet Babies.
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