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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Sept 15, 2005 12:55:30 GMT -5
OK, since I've read that (excellent) fan-written 'extension' of Beast In The Black (where it goes over what was happening to Bill, inside his mind, while the evil spirit was in his body), I think I may have realized something for the first time.
When Ralph is about to bring Bill back into the house for the final time, Bill comes to, handcuffed in the back seat. He appears normal again (brown eyes, normal voice), but quickly turns back into the 'evil woman' right after Ralph puts him over his shoulder and starts to take him into the house.
Are we supposed to assume, like the fan story wrote, that this was the evil spirit all along and it was just "pretending" to be Bill? I always thought it really WAS Bill at first, and he just 'changed over' more quickly than before. Think the other way (like the evil spirit was trying to 'trick' Ralph) is even more cool!
Thoughts?
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 15, 2005 12:57:02 GMT -5
I have thought it was the spirit fooling Ralph. Since she had won over, she can switch back and forth to suit her situation...and in this instance, tricking Ralph was the most important endeavor.
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Post by billswoman on Sept 15, 2005 13:07:08 GMT -5
I have thought it was the spirit fooling Ralph. Since she had won over, she can switch back and forth to suit her situation...and in this instance, tricking Ralph was the most important endeavor. I can't accept this chick was STRONGER than my man Maxwell. Hah. I think it's how I depicted it in my fanfic "Get in the Spirit." As for "him" looking like Bill, it was the little things, like "him" saying "Chick" and then going on and on about shaving... would Bill have done that? Of course not, Ralph even calls "him" on the "chick" comment. That little note of desperation in Bill's own voice, about "I can't shave like this!" was a clue too. Why on earth would Bill go on about not being able to shave? Now, a woman in Bill's body might; it was too unusual to her, having five o'clock shadow, probably feeling icky as a result. Naw, I pegged it... Once Bill knew Ralph was there to save him, he kicked back and LET Sheila run the show; she certainly wasn't stronger than Bill! And like I've said before, look at what point Sheila SEEMS to win: Right after Bill talks to Ralph, and yells for Ralph to help him. Ralph assures Bill he knows what to do, and I think at that point, like I show in the story, Bill's relaxed and just waiting for Ralph to come through (as he knows he will, he knows his partner after all!) I'm basing this on what we actually see in the ep, not my own wishful thinking. Up till that phonecall to his own apartment, cuz he KNOWS Ralph will be there, Bill and Sheila had been seemingly winning back and forth, with no clear victor for any length of time. Sorry, going on here... but I think y'all know what I mean. And how ANYONE can consider this one of the WORST episodes (see that thread) is beyond me. IMO, it's one of the top three best eps! (Along with "Divorce..." and O:SS, imo again.)
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 15, 2005 13:08:55 GMT -5
Good point. I never thought of it being voluntary. Even in the pilot though, Bill comments about he knew Ralph would be there...and this is before he had seen the suit or how it worked. Got to admire that faith. And it is not that it is not an okay episode...I like others better.
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Post by billswoman on Sept 15, 2005 13:11:16 GMT -5
Oh yeah, MaxwellFBI... thanks for the "excellent" comment
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 15, 2005 13:18:22 GMT -5
Isn't it weird that Bill dies in this episode, but never seems to get mortally wounded by bullets? Only chandeliers in haunted houses can do him in.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Sept 15, 2005 14:06:29 GMT -5
Those solid brass, 500lb chandeliers... they're a real b*tch.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 15, 2005 14:09:37 GMT -5
So I guess we could talk about "screwing the pooch."
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Post by MelMac on Sept 15, 2005 22:58:17 GMT -5
I also thought it was Sheila trying to fool Ralph all along, especially with the chick line. After all, he was taking her back to her "prison." Another thing I noticed in the scene with Bill and Ralph before going back into the house was when, after Ralph wakes him up, Bill complains about the handcuffs being too tight. Ralph tells him "Well, their you're cuffs," and helps him sit up. When Bill says, "Well, you learned a thing or two from the old geezer, huh?" the look in his eyes and tone of his voice suggested to me anyway, that it was Sheila talking. Besides, why would Bill call himself a geezer? He's too cool for that.
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Post by billswoman on Sept 15, 2005 23:15:48 GMT -5
I know he refers to himself as a geezer in at least one other ep, in Best Desk Scenario, about them yelling as he crosses the finish line, "Go, geezer, go!" LOL
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Sept 15, 2005 23:30:31 GMT -5
Wow. Didn't realize the B-word (lol) would be turned into pregnant dog. I seem to remember someone else messing with the system here to see what they could get away with (Maxwell cocks his gun? was that it? hilarious!). Pregnant dog... gotta meet the programmer on this one...
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 16, 2005 8:12:33 GMT -5
I love how they dream some of these up. What is better than a pregnant dog for an insult? Maybe I should start using that.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 10, 2006 16:05:33 GMT -5
I still think that it was the spirit trying to fool Ralph and not because of what billswoman believes. If you watch the episode, Bill tells Ralph on the phone that he doesn't know what's going on. He IS aware that he is not at home and is in Century City somehow when the last thing he probably remembers is being in the house trying to usher the kids out. Even at the hospital with brown eyes, he was walking funny and not putting his clothes on right. I think Bill realized something was up and called his own place knowing Ralph would be on the case. However, I don't think he knew what was happening to him because he said so. Therefore, Sheila was able to overwhelm him. Part of that might be because he had been dead and was still not himself internally while she was in almost full possession of her faculties. It is more plausible than him taking a chance that Ralph might not succeed.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 10, 2006 16:18:51 GMT -5
I have never enjoyed this episode and I am not sure why. Maybe it is because this house used to have a tunnel that connected to stables, but then one day it became a door to the fourth dimension. Probably wasn't zoned for it either. Of course, wheelchairs are so dangerous...even hurtling down stairs it probably would not have hurt anyone that badly. I guess I didn't know that used bricks had ANY value at all...but apparently they do for some odd reason. The old phone, the fireplace, the chandelier...all of those I get, but not bricks. How did being electrocuted equate to being trapped in the fourth dimension? I have never understood the exposition of this episode, mainly because it lacks it. Especially on how the old lady got killed. Why let Sheila into the house at all if she didn't trust her or want her around? You think she might have put in her will to not let Sheila get the property at all regardless. And how did the old lady get around? If she was an invalid, where was her elevator? You don't climb stairs in a wheelchair, you know. Bill was dead too. How did he become alive again? You would think that Sheila could take over the unconscious body and be fine because Bill was dead and no longer existed. That part was not made clear at all. Something else that drives me nuts is the psychic. Rhonda says that this lady helped the cops FIND someone and Ralph says that this is what he wants. Instead, she tells him all about the fourth dimension and then he does his holograph to find Bill. Why didn't he do that sooner? Why force the psychic into it at all? You think he could have read a book on the fourth dimension or something. Overall, the premise behind this episode was probably great and people loved it, but it makes no sense and is probably Juanita's worst effort in my opinion. And some of her others are not good.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 10, 2006 16:26:09 GMT -5
The first time Ralph went into the dimension, he came out screaming in pain because of his chest and back. Yet after he rescued Bill, he came out and was fine. You think he would have had fresh scars and welts after his encounter with the Beast. Also, how come the Beast didn't seem to affect Bill? Why was it always after Ralph? That makes no sense at all.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 10, 2006 16:32:22 GMT -5
Finally, did anyone ever notice that Ralph was trying to get the class to bribe the school? Cyler and Tony both mentioned the fact to some degree, but Ralph said that if they gave the school something nice, maybe people would treat them better. I have to say that it sounds like Ralph is teaching them to bribe people to be accepted. I never gave a class gift in my life and I have only heard of it randomly. I don't think my class gave a present...I guess I should qualify that I don't recall what it was if we did. Then, again, if we did, it was a senior class present and since season 3 has all of them but Rhonda in at least one episode...they can't be seniors. It just seemed odd that Ralph was trying to get them to bribe the school by buying them a gift.
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Post by MelMac on Jul 12, 2006 11:00:02 GMT -5
I still think that it was the spirit trying to fool Ralph and not because of what billswoman believes. If you watch the episode, Bill tells Ralph on the phone that he doesn't know what's going on. He IS aware that he is not at home and is in Century City somehow when the last thing he probably remembers is being in the house trying to usher the kids out. Even at the hospital with brown eyes, he was walking funny and not putting his clothes on right. I think Bill realized something was up and called his own place knowing Ralph would be on the case. However, I don't think he knew what was happening to him because he said so. Therefore, Sheila was able to overwhelm him. Part of that might be because he had been dead and was still not himself internally while she was in almost full possession of her faculties. It is more plausible than him taking a chance that Ralph might not succeed. As far as the hospital, I've always chalked it off that the chandelier hit messed up his organizational skills a bit. That does happen if you get hit in the head. I had fun with two lines temporarily in "You Can't Take it With You" when I hit my head on the armrest doing a stage faint ... and I wasn't knocked out. It's not until he gets the second dizzy spell putting on his shirt that I start to realize he's possessed. Same goes with walking funny as I doubt anyone could walk straight when they've a. just come around from a knockout and are pretty much standing up sooner than they should and b. are trying to hold their hospital gowns together so no one can see their clean underwear. And, as it's further down here, I totally agree with you about why is Bill dead? You'd think that if he were just unconscious she'd be able to take possession of him. Pretty much when you're in that condition, you can't do much except the actions that are automatic (heartbeat, breathing, though the latter can be affected once you're out). I've always wondered if he just barely had a pulse and breathing but Ralph couldn't feel it and started CPR to get Bill going. That could also be possible, as in extreme hypothermia the victim's pulse goes very slow, but it beats enough to keep the person alive. Don't know, just a theory.
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Post by billswoman on Dec 27, 2006 7:21:52 GMT -5
I'm watching this ep yet again, and something occured to me that I never thought of before, and don't know if someone's asked it in another thread, but when Ralph's looking for Bill... why doesn't he just holograph in on him? Granted, he ends up in Bill's apartment, but he'd told Rhonda how he'd been out all night looking for Bill. Wouldn't it have been easy enough to go to Bill's car to vibe off of (well, assuming he needs to, 'cause we know he can get holographs without vibing off a thing, but that's another topic).
Is the fact that Sheila's "in there" stopping him from being able to holograph on his partner?
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Post by MelMac on Dec 27, 2006 9:27:35 GMT -5
I'm watching this ep yet again, and something occured to me that I never thought of before, and don't know if someone's asked it in another thread, but when Ralph's looking for Bill... why doesn't he just holograph in on him? Granted, he ends up in Bill's apartment, but he'd told Rhonda how he'd been out all night looking for Bill. Wouldn't it have been easy enough to go to Bill's car to vibe off of (well, assuming he needs to, 'cause we know he can get holographs without vibing off a thing, but that's another topic). Is the fact that Sheila's "in there" stopping him from being able to holograph on his partner? It's possible, but I have my doubts because it hasn't stopped him before, so why now? He should've at least got an emergency type one when Bill was a good distance away. I have two possible theories on top of that possibility. One, Ralph was so scared at nearly being shot and killed out of the suit the suit is reacting to that adrenaline in a negative way. Only problem with this would be if he searched for Bill all night, as by then that adreanaline would've failed. The second is that Bill could've been unconscious or just barely awake while Sheila was in control at that time. Given that he has just come around from being hit over the head by the chandelier and was stubbornly trying to get out of the hospital, it would've been easy for him to pass out again and Shelia take control. Also, considering he was seriously dazed and confused as to what he was driving as well as why he had his gun in his pocket at first shows that this might've happened. Since Ralph too said he had trouble getting holographs of people in that condition, it makes it a possibility IMO. Later on when they return from the Fourth Dimension, Bill mentions to Ralph that he shouldn't go walking through walls with him. By then, I think Bill was able to fight enough to stay awake but not in control so he could see what happened prior to their encounter with the beast. It had been several hours since his head injury that it could've been easier for him to fight when needed, allowing Ralph to find him and get the holograph.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 27, 2006 9:38:29 GMT -5
I'm watching this ep yet again, and something occured to me that I never thought of before, and don't know if someone's asked it in another thread, but when Ralph's looking for Bill... why doesn't he just holograph in on him? Granted, he ends up in Bill's apartment, but he'd told Rhonda how he'd been out all night looking for Bill. Wouldn't it have been easy enough to go to Bill's car to vibe off of (well, assuming he needs to, 'cause we know he can get holographs without vibing off a thing, but that's another topic). Is the fact that Sheila's "in there" stopping him from being able to holograph on his partner? I don't think so. Recall that after he got off the phone with Bill at Century City, he DID holograph in on Sheila dancing with dresses. I think MelMac may have a point about being unconscious, but as we have seen, Ralph DOES forget suit powers a LOT, so maybe his nerves were too frayed to remember.
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