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Post by The J-Man on Aug 7, 2009 20:48:55 GMT -5
A scrapbook that I made in 1986 of news clippings relating to the attempted "GAH" revival.from Starlog magazine:from Marilyn Beck's syndicated entertainment column that ran in my local paper. This was actually the very first item I saw on the subject. I was a 17 year-old high school student and it may have been the happiest day of my life:from TV Guide:from Starlog:from Starlog:Oh, well. Easy come, easy go. But for a moment, just one brief moment, it was so close we could almost taste it, wasn't it?
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Post by MelMac on Aug 8, 2009 11:12:23 GMT -5
Wow these are cool. Thanks for sharing J-Man (and good to see you back around here again - been a while since we've had your wonderful insight. ). The one funny thing I've noticed about this is that only Katt's reason to not be in the show is mentioned, not Connie's, who was in I think "Hotel" at the time (and I can understand watching the series again on DVD - she was good.) I do wonder though if Connie were able to return to make a regular "GAH" series (as some actors did cross channels to be in two shows at the same time if I recall correctly) if Katt would've reconsidered? (pause) Hey Marci - that might be a good question to ask Katt.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 13, 2009 18:49:12 GMT -5
Nice find, J-Man! ;D
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Post by Ms Boku on Aug 13, 2009 19:31:51 GMT -5
Very sweet!
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Post by MelMac on Aug 13, 2009 22:40:45 GMT -5
You know it's funny - but looking at Mary Ellen Stuart's mug shot - it looks like she's got on the turtleneck over the suit - there's red shoulders.
What makes this neat though is it shows the progress of the attempt from start to finish - something that is pretty rare nowadays. Probably why Conan O'Brien right now also tends to go out and about on the studio lot and try to find out what people do on a daily basis there.
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Post by jopierce on Oct 8, 2009 14:31:07 GMT -5
Nice find!
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Post by MelMac on Nov 4, 2009 20:07:58 GMT -5
One thing I noticed rereading these again, was that they did at least plan this from start to finish on the plot, and they did try to get interest in a female suit wearer. There was potential, but I think there were too many things going against it at the time that even if Katt and Connie been able to do it, I think it wouldn't have lasted too long. Then again - if it was going to be opposite "60 Minutes," I think people would've had more interest in the show because sometimes "60" drones on too long IMHO (This even with the very good Anderson Cooper as one of the reporters now. )
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Dec 31, 2009 9:52:47 GMT -5
Stuff like this still kills me because it makes me believe, if Katt had just said "Yes", we would have had our show (or at least something close to it) back. Awesome articles though - very interesting to read. Thanks for posting!
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Post by MelMac on Dec 31, 2009 11:05:58 GMT -5
Stuff like this still kills me because it makes me believe, if Katt had just said "Yes", we would have had our show (or at least something close to it) back. Awesome articles though - very interesting to read. Thanks for posting! True, but I'm a little mixed given the pilot we received for "GAHeroine." It's quite possible stories like that were going to be the norm. Now, Katt and Culp would've played the bar scene with a little more credibility IMHO as well as the argument at (Holly's) home, but it was a long cry from bad guys and the like. Plus, "Perry Mason" was a very good and popular series in its first run. The movies also became quite popular, so much so that they even did one episode AFTER Raymond Burr had passed away. I don't fault Katt one bit for keeping his word and continuing on with "Mason," even more so when Connie couldn't cross networks and be in "GAH" and "Hotel" (which also was relatively popular). And in the case of Connie, I think she was great as Christine, and feel that show would've sunk had they had to recast the role.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 31, 2009 11:06:43 GMT -5
One other thing I noticed - Mary Ellen Stuart is 25 in that photo, but she sure looks older than a lot of members on this board who are past 25.
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Post by johnnybeane on Apr 6, 2010 4:01:17 GMT -5
Awesome stuff! Thanks for posting!
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 6, 2010 9:16:01 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to try to write a post, since now I'm mainly a lurker:
I just read the entire 2 hour script of GAHeroine, which I found on-line and bought. I wanted to see the whole episode to be able to judge it more appropriately.
In a word--Yuck! This was a 120 minute disappointment, not just the 20 minute one we see in the filmed version. And, it was written by Babs Greyhosky, a long time Cannell associate and experienced writer. She just blew this one.
What's interesting is we learn that the whole initial set-up, when Ralph is on a building looking for an assassin, and then sees someone fall off a building and saves her, landing in front of the President, is all a set-up BY the government, just like in "The Newlywed Game". Our government stupidly decides to expose Ralph to the world (and then, apparently, not hire him or have him actually work for the government). So, our government has this kind of secret hero, with all kinds of suit-given powers, and just decides to make him public, get him publicity to corrupt him, and not use him at all. Okay.....Babs, what drugs did you do before sitting down to write this?
Holly, btw, has a daycare at Ralph's High School. (?) The "pawsable" work she was doing--rescuing injured animals, healing them, and then selling them (as if anyone could make a living doing that out of their homes!)--was over as she "ran" out of injured animals. I mean, everything is stupid in this pilot. So, she has a daycare at the high school--I mean, do high school students have 7 year old children to bring in for day care? That makes no sense. Or, is the high school renting out a room for some stranger to run their unassociated business in--which also makes no sense. However, that's how in the pilot Ralph and Holly know each other.
The next section is pretty much what we see filmed--Ralph goes bad from publicity and strains his marriage. Bill is (stupidly) being called up for a review to see if Ralph, the amazing super-hero apparently sanctioned by the government, was a help to Bill in solving cases (Really Important Cases Which No One Else Was Solving) and if he did He Is In Big Trouble. Not sure why, because those were Really Important Things Bill and Ralph were able to stop, like, for one, off the top of my head, SAVING THE WORLD from nuclear destruction, but apparently Bill can get into serious trouble now for having done so.
Then the Green Guys come in--have Ralph find another suit wearer (which is incredibly stupid, as the GG should have done that), have everyone forget (stupid), have papers changed and Ralph's flower bouquets disappear, in other words, they act like G-d, which is very stupid, too.
We get Ralph and Bill looking for a new suit wearer and then Ralph chooses Holly, they meet at the car, they say good-bye. Unfortunately, after making the immense mistake of having a wise-cracking 7 year old Kevin be in the TGAH pilot, who they very soon wrote out, Babs stupidly decided to include a wise-cracking seven year old Sarah, who everyone hated immediately upon seeing the pilot.
Bill and Holly AND Sarah go to Canada, looking into a ship used to oppose whaling, which was destroyed apparently by whalers. But, something is suspicious. The bar scene is different with petite Holly actually beating the huge strong whaler in arm wrestling WITHOUT having the suit on. Stupid. Then we have them investigating things, with this other guy who is supposedly a friend but of course turns out to be a bad guy, Bill is kidnapped, Holly rescues him. We eventually find out that the "whaling ship" was not whaling, but instead was bringing in missiles, and torpedo'd the other ship when it discovered that. (Holly winds up scuba diving and finding the destroyed ship and then lifts it all up and brings it back to shore). After that they do some investigating with the bad guy on his boat and learn there is a small isolated island (a la James Bond) whereby the bad people have a set up to shoot a missile which will fly down to NYC and destroy the United Nations. Why? Because we learn there is a group of people who do not like governments--that is all we learn! And so they are destroying the UN! Nothing else is explained! So stupid!
At the end of the incredibly awful show, Holly is now going to fly down to Louisiana to help save an endangered species. Bill, if he wants to, can come along, she says. Huh? Yeah, Babs, totally decrease the need for, and responsibilities of, Bill in the new show--that's just what TGAH fans want! (NOT!). Not only that, but Babs had Bill at the height of his worst behavior, screaming out bombastically in every scene. We all know Bill changed greatly in that way and didn't act like that all the time. Even me, who worships at the Bill Maxwell Altar, got really irritated by Bill, as he seemed to be an endless jerk, based on how Babs wrote him and his dialogue! That says a lot about how she misread Bill Maxwell.
It was very interesting reading the GAHeroine pilot. I was surprised that after all Cannell wanted to do with TGAH, and he wanted to always focus on character development, he apparently okayed this idiotic treatment with no intent on focusing on characters. This was the sheer comic cartoon effect he had dreaded the networks wanted TGAH to become and he was, apparently, approving it.
It's just hard to believe. The whole pilot was SO bad.
Differences in the written pilot and what we saw: 1. Holly doesn't work at the high school 2. Holly does wear the suit in the bar fight
Mona
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Post by MelMac on Apr 6, 2010 10:54:30 GMT -5
Having a daycare at the high school isn't out there - for present day. Our schools have a preschool in one and one in high school where students can also study child development (It's also strictly regulated and the students I believe are screened prior to being accepted for this class. That said - 1986, no sense at all - so I'd guess something there or Babs was ahead of her time. Hate they made Bill a huge idiot, and made THAT the excuse as to why Ralph wasn't basically being knocked out by him or Pam, tied up and made to come to his senses. I think it's the ego - not being found out - as to why the green guys chose Ralph to hand over the suit. Loved the "You Picked a Skirt" but shouting and such was rare even in the ORIGINAL "GAH" pilot. To say that the EDITED pilot is better is scary... seriously, this is WORSE. I'm kinda scared to say this, but I think even Collazo's fiasco would've been better (and everyone KNOWS how upset I was with that attempt. ) Thank you for sharing Mona - I really appreciate you helping us finally figure out what the crap "GAHeroine" was supposed to be about.
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Post by The J-Man on Apr 6, 2010 17:12:13 GMT -5
I, too, have the full-length script for "GAHeroine", although it's been a very long time since I've read it. I can't comment on specifics, but I can make a general comment or two. First of all, as old-timers here know, I am no great fan of Ms. Greyhosky's efforts on "GAH". I just don't think she was a great fit for that series or "The A-Team". That being said, I think "GAHeroine" was a pretty decent effort on her part. The full-length script serves as much more of a Return of The Greatest American Hero TV Movie before segueing into setting up the new series (Carlisle and "The Students" even appear). Well, that's really all I can say since it's been so long since I've actually read it. What can I say? In a perfect world, Stephen J. Cannell and Patrick Hasburgh would write everything, period. That being said, has everyone seen the brand new trailer for "The A-Team"? It looks great! It continues to look like they're staying very true to the tone of the show. trailers.apple.com/movies/fox/theateam/ateam-tlr2_480p.mov
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Post by greenguy on Apr 6, 2010 17:42:55 GMT -5
Mona pretty much hit it on the head about the 2 hour Heroine script.
A couple of things, the whole whaler scenario sounds like its lifted straight from a script that Culp himself was working on back during the shows second season. How much so, I can't say since a copy of the script or story treatment have never surfaced as far as I know. However based on what he mentioned in a old Starlog interview, it sounds very similar. Plus he admits in the interview on the old Anchor Bay DVD set as to having some input on the creation of TGAHeroine.
As for the daycare in high school. My high school years were from 1980-1984, and there was in fact a daycare at my school. However I believe Mona's point was "what high school student has a 7 year old child" and she's right. Even the facility during my years of high school was populated with babies, not 7 year old children.
The 2hr script makes more sense than the shorter filmed version, but still a mish mash better suited (forgive the pun) for some other series and not TGAH.
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Post by MelMac on Apr 6, 2010 20:33:38 GMT -5
I guess the school where I live is a bit odd - or has students who are geniuses. And, though it's not really executed well here - if that was an idea Culp had regarding a whaling ship, it was actually a different and potentially interesting idea. Too bad that the whole script just didn't make sense. And Holly winning the arm wrestling match without the suit is highly unlikely - especially a burly guy the size of that bear. Probably the one change that made sense - have Holly in the suit (even if they did handle it with the cartoon effects. )
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 6, 2010 21:27:20 GMT -5
Thanks, Mona. Now I'm glad we only had one hour of pain.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 6, 2010 22:09:55 GMT -5
Thanks for the great input from all of you! Really nice to read!
As for Culp's script, I think he was more focused on once again showing Maxwell wearing this very thin "manly" coat of armor, even though underneath it Maxwell is, as Culp once quoted, "a softy", that is a very decent guy. So, he had plans for Maxwell as usual at first denigrating Ralph for wanting to stop whaling and then once he and Ralph are on a boat seeing the whales being harpooned and killed, Bill just freaks out and starts attacking the whaling ship.
That's the same sort of thing I loved to see in episodes such as "Desperado", where Maxwell briefly complains of saving horses and then turns around devoted to doing so with Desperado; and complains in "Good Samaritan" about helping the lost child and then happily talks about having done so all the long trip back to town; and jokes about Villacana and then helps him in "Fire Man"; and also makes fun of the geek kid and then stays up all night long playing video games with him to help settle his emotions in "Space Ranger". I really liked that aspect of Maxwell, but Greyhosky missed all the good guy stuff and just focused on his bombastic side. GET THIS-- Babs even had dolphins make nasty comments about Bill to Holly in dolphin-speak when they were in a boat (which apparently she can understand in the suit), and then splash him with cold water, so Bill is reduced to being some idiotic side kick to Holly.
Good Gosh, it was really a terrible pilot.
Mona
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Post by The J-Man on Apr 7, 2010 14:00:57 GMT -5
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 19, 2017 11:31:13 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to try to write a post, since now I'm mainly a lurker: I just read the entire 2 hour script of GAHeroine, which I found on-line and bought. I wanted to see the whole episode to be able to judge it more appropriately. In a word--Yuck! This was a 120 minute disappointment, not just the 20 minute one we see in the filmed version. And, it was written by Babs Greyhosky, a long time Cannell associate and experienced writer. She just blew this one. What's interesting is we learn that the whole initial set-up, when Ralph is on a building looking for an assassin, and then sees someone fall off a building and saves her, landing in front of the President, is all a set-up BY the government, just like in "The Newlywed Game". Our government stupidly decides to expose Ralph to the world (and then, apparently, not hire him or have him actually work for the government). So, our government has this kind of secret hero, with all kinds of suit-given powers, and just decides to make him public, get him publicity to corrupt him, and not use him at all. Okay.....Babs, what drugs did you do before sitting down to write this? Holly, btw, has a daycare at Ralph's High School. (?) The "pawsable" work she was doing--rescuing injured animals, healing them, and then selling them (as if anyone could make a living doing that out of their homes!)--was over as she "ran" out of injured animals. I mean, everything is stupid in this pilot. So, she has a daycare at the high school--I mean, do high school students have 7 year old children to bring in for day care? That makes no sense. Or, is the high school renting out a room for some stranger to run their unassociated business in--which also makes no sense. However, that's how in the pilot Ralph and Holly know each other. The next section is pretty much what we see filmed--Ralph goes bad from publicity and strains his marriage. Bill is (stupidly) being called up for a review to see if Ralph, the amazing super-hero apparently sanctioned by the government, was a help to Bill in solving cases (Really Important Cases Which No One Else Was Solving) and if he did He Is In Big Trouble. Not sure why, because those were Really Important Things Bill and Ralph were able to stop, like, for one, off the top of my head, SAVING THE WORLD from nuclear destruction, but apparently Bill can get into serious trouble now for having done so. Then the Green Guys come in--have Ralph find another suit wearer (which is incredibly stupid, as the GG should have done that), have everyone forget (stupid), have papers changed and Ralph's flower bouquets disappear, in other words, they act like G-d, which is very stupid, too. We get Ralph and Bill looking for a new suit wearer and then Ralph chooses Holly, they meet at the car, they say good-bye. Unfortunately, after making the immense mistake of having a wise-cracking 7 year old Kevin be in the TGAH pilot, who they very soon wrote out, Babs stupidly decided to include a wise-cracking seven year old Sarah, who everyone hated immediately upon seeing the pilot. Bill and Holly AND Sarah go to Canada, looking into a ship used to oppose whaling, which was destroyed apparently by whalers. But, something is suspicious. The bar scene is different with petite Holly actually beating the huge strong whaler in arm wrestling WITHOUT having the suit on. Stupid. Then we have them investigating things, with this other guy who is supposedly a friend but of course turns out to be a bad guy, Bill is kidnapped, Holly rescues him. We eventually find out that the "whaling ship" was not whaling, but instead was bringing in missiles, and torpedo'd the other ship when it discovered that. (Holly winds up scuba diving and finding the destroyed ship and then lifts it all up and brings it back to shore). After that they do some investigating with the bad guy on his boat and learn there is a small isolated island (a la James Bond) whereby the bad people have a set up to shoot a missile which will fly down to NYC and destroy the United Nations. Why? Because we learn there is a group of people who do not like governments--that is all we learn! And so they are destroying the UN! Nothing else is explained! So stupid! At the end of the incredibly awful show, Holly is now going to fly down to Louisiana to help save an endangered species. Bill, if he wants to, can come along, she says. Huh? Yeah, Babs, totally decrease the need for, and responsibilities of, Bill in the new show--that's just what TGAH fans want! (NOT!). Not only that, but Babs had Bill at the height of his worst behavior, screaming out bombastically in every scene. We all know Bill changed greatly in that way and didn't act like that all the time. Even me, who worships at the Bill Maxwell Altar, got really irritated by Bill, as he seemed to be an endless jerk, based on how Babs wrote him and his dialogue! That says a lot about how she misread Bill Maxwell. It was very interesting reading the GAHeroine pilot. I was surprised that after all Cannell wanted to do with TGAH, and he wanted to always focus on character development, he apparently okayed this idiotic treatment with no intent on focusing on characters. This was the sheer comic cartoon effect he had dreaded the networks wanted TGAH to become and he was, apparently, approving it. It's just hard to believe. The whole pilot was SO bad. Differences in the written pilot and what we saw: 1. Holly doesn't work at the high school 2. Holly does wear the suit in the bar fight Mona Rereading this makes me wonder why NBC greenlit the project at all. If you are having to edit an HOUR of content to make something work in a very rudimentary fashion, start over! As for SJC, I'm sure he was tired by that point. The A-Team was ending, but he had recently lost his son and that probably weighed on him too with all of his other work. Not defending this necessarily, but I can see how it might have slipped through the cracks. I would be interested in reading the script. Is there anyway we could get a sub-board for scripts to be posted via images, downloads, or even direct posts? That would be cool.
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