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Post by billswoman on Dec 3, 2005 0:48:00 GMT -5
Okay, I have one burning question... WHO is it in the pirate costume following Stoppard (sp?) into the dressing room, after the old guy's almost torched? It certainly isn't Robert Culp! It's a young guy; I suspect it's Culp's stunt double, because in the later knife-fight scene, it looks like the young guy again. AND the dude's hair was curled, like Culp's was. Stoppard, if I'm spelling it right, was played by Andrew Robinson. Star Trek: Deep Space 9 fans, like myself (my second favorite Trek series), will recognize him as a very young Garak. Those blue eyes slay me, whoot! Bill in costume just continually cracks me up in that ep! Afterburn, 9/14/2006 I modified the title to this thread, because at the time I started it, I thought the ep title was "The Great Carlini." Sorry, gang! Ah, youth.
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Post by Videofox on Dec 3, 2005 13:33:24 GMT -5
Having Bill Maxwell and Garak together in one episode was awesome. I consider them both to be absolutely the best characters ever created for television. I nevered mattered if an episode was lame...(which on DS9 was very rare, for those who never watched it)...I just like watching both of them talk. They have the best lines ever written, reinforced by their perfect delivery of such lines. Odo: You'd shoot a man in the back? Garak: Well, it's the safest way, isn't it? Bashir: So of the stories you told me, which ones were true? Garak: My dear doctor, all of them were true. Bashir: What about the lies? Garak: Especially the lies. Worf: They are not interrogating you, Mr Garak. They are debriefing. There is a difference. Garak: Not from where I'm sitting. Garak: The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination. Garak: I'd like to get my hands on that fellow Earl Grey and tell him a thing or two about tea leaves. Sisko: I thought the Bajorans bent over backwards to be polite to you, Garak. Garak: Giving me a nametag that read "Elim Garak, former Cardassian oppressor" was hardly polite. (Bashir tells the story of the boy who cried "Wolf") Bashir: If you lie all the time, no one is going to believe you, even when you're telling the truth. Garak: Are you sure that's the point, Doctor? Bashir: Of course. What else would it be? Garak: That you should never tell the same lie twice. Bashir: They broke seven of your transverse ribs and fractured your clavicle! Garak: Ah, but I got off several cutting remarks which no doubt did serious damage to their egos. Sorry about the Garak-heavy post. I would put in some of my favorite Maxwell lines but there's so many and everyone knows them already. ;D Those who don't know Garak, just picture Andrew Robinson saying these lines, and you'll get the idea. Maxwell and Garak....they rock!
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Post by deadzoneleaperhero on Dec 3, 2005 14:42:18 GMT -5
I would give Lionel Luthor from Smallville an Honorable Mention... his character is a mean SOB...and you just have fun watching him being evil
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Post by billswoman on Dec 3, 2005 15:20:10 GMT -5
I've always loved Garak, and I agree, Andrew Robinson is an awesome actor. I never knew his work till DS9, which I think is also an AWESOME series, one reason it's my second favorite Trek series. In "Carlini," he looks awfully young and sadly didn't have much opportunity to exhibit his extraordinary acting talent.
As for the quotes, those were great! I could almost picture Culp as Bill Maxwell delivering some of those lines, they seemed very Maxwell-ish to me.
Would love to talk more to a fellow DS9 fan, over in the Bug Bin, if you wanna get something started. Could talk Trek forever and ever, esp TOS and DS9.
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Post by billswoman on Dec 3, 2005 15:22:01 GMT -5
I would give Lionel Luthor from Smallville an Honorable Mention... his character is a mean SOB...and you just have fun watching him being evil I know, he's great too, and I hate to admit the actor's name escapes me. He reminds me of Exidor (sp?) from "Mork and Mindy." It can't be the same guy, can it? After all these years? I LOVED Exidor, he was one of the best characters ever. Just about any line from him was a scream! I know, it's going OT...
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Post by deadzoneleaperhero on Dec 3, 2005 17:17:46 GMT -5
John Glover is Lionel... Robert Donner was Exidor....
Strange how I remember details like that but couldn't tell you what I learned in school...
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Post by The J-Man on Dec 3, 2005 17:32:33 GMT -5
John Glover is Lionel... Robert Donner was Exidor.... Strange how I remember details like that but couldn't tell you what I learned in school... Well, if they said anything important in school, I'm sure it will come back to you sooner or later. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Post by MissDavidson on Dec 4, 2005 0:20:00 GMT -5
John Glover is Lionel... Robert Donner was Exidor.... Strange how I remember details like that but couldn't tell you what I learned in school... Well, if they said anything important in school, I'm sure it will come back to you sooner or later. I wouldn't worry about it. Yep. . .like when you're watching Jeopardy. . .lol
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 27, 2006 23:22:58 GMT -5
CARLINI was NOT the best episode Lupo ever wrote for the series...probably because it tried too hard to be a Halloween murder mystery type episode. It had potential, but the weird holographs and everything worked against the whole premise. However, you have to LOVE the nod that Lupo gave the character who is OBVIOUSLY based on the great Houdini.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 27, 2006 23:55:46 GMT -5
This episode has some ego again for Ralph. He is elected the chairman of the Halloween committee and then belittles everyone that wants to be involved. This is very evident when he lets the other three magicians think that he is a magician. Although if he is SO talented, you think that Ralph would have a better stage name than the AMAZING HINKLEY. Ralph did have a great moment in the episode. When they first entered Carlini's house and he said that he bet it was full of trap doors, he hit something and pretended to fall. The look on his face as he fell and Bill's face thinking it was true was priceless. One of the best scenes in the series possibly. Two new suit powers/problems: 1. Breathing underwater for extended periods of time. You think he could have tried THAT when he was in the tropics though if he was curious. 2. The inability to break OUT of a holograph. Something new about the holograph power...but not well explained. Two problems I have: 1. How does Bill always manage to show up at the same time or just after Ralph? Ralph flies over the land and Bill has to drive around stuff and yet, they get their almost at the same time all the time. 2. Why is Toby Roberts in intensive care? He wasn't killed or anything. Ralph saved him. Does fainting put people in the ICU or something? I like how Stoppard put it all together instead of one of the trio. It shows that even with the suit they are not perfect. He told them how Blanchert told him of Carlini and how he had survived and everything. The reactions on the faces of the trio were great. A couple of head scratchers about the episode: 1. Why did the doll blow up in Ralph's holograph? Did that signify that Carlini was cracking or what? 2. Doesn't anyone else find it very lucky that Carlini was picked to test the tank? How else would he have killed Ralph without it? 3. Did Carlini know that the crematorium act would be unsuccessful because HIS was and HE perfected it? 4. How did Carlini escape the night he was burned? 5. Why did Carlini run when Ralph got out? Doesn't he know that draws attention to him? On a good note, the scene with Bill and the magician who was making the bird talk was hilarious. Not a great episode, but definitely one that stands out in a lot of ways...both good and bad.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 28, 2006 0:31:13 GMT -5
This episode has some ego again for Ralph. He is elected the chairman of the Halloween committee and then belittles everyone that wants to be involved. This is very evident when he lets the other three magicians think that he is a magician. Although if he is SO talented, you think that Ralph would have a better stage name than the AMAZING HINKLEY. I noticed that with Ralph too, and given he can't do the card game right, I've always thought it was as shown, an act. But, the best magicians are the ones who fool others, so him being able to fool the other three does show that... no matter how bad he was. (Yes... The Amazing Hinkley is very unoriginal.) Same here. They both did a great job with that and Ralph's chuckle afterward made it even funnier. It's one of the scenes I rewind and rewatch each time simply because it's that much fun to watch. Pam was definitely right, and I'd be just as upset worried as she was about the breathing bit. It's risky just holding your breath and jumping in. Plus... things could happen outside what did in the story. The inability to break out of a holograph is a good one too, but it did need some explaining or help in saying it's serious. It really needed Pam, Bill or someone else snapping Ralph out of it. (Did experiment with this idea in Aidan's first story... Ralph has to shake her shoulder to get her out of her trance.) First is conveniant plot point. Never like those... makes Bill break every law on the books. Second one, if he were dead, he would be in the morgue. Fainting can put you in the hospital overnight for observation, depending on what was the cause. For something basic (i.e. something like standing with knees locked too long in a hot room), no. My guess is that Roberts was knocked unconscious as well (this is assumed because I doubt he'd willingly do this ), but he either received a harder blow to the head or was drugged after being KO'd. Or... he could've also had a heart arrythmia from seeing the foot long spikes that were being slowly coaxed down by a candlelight burning through the ropes. (I know, Ralph says Robert's breathing's all right... but nothing else save that and Robert's "must've passed out"). I'd probably have something like that if I saw the same thing and was chained under the spikes. I liked them being duped as well. Too funny. In numerical order: 1. Either what you said or as it switched to the pool and Roberts' place, that if he didn't help Roberts soon, the man would die. 2. Carlini helps out by jumping up and down. Also, so no one who's a magician gets upset if this happens (though I'm not one), in spoiler black: For all we know, the costume he wore belonged to someone who was supposed to help with the trick and Carlini attacked/killed the man and stole it from him. Later on during the stunt, the assistants 'picked' him and he did the checking like the person was supposed to.3. I think Carlini knew that the magician was going to try it and he set it up so the guy would die. If it weren't for Ralph and the suit, the magician would've. 4. Pending other injuries save his face and if he was conscious or not, Carlini probably was carried out by Blanchert in the ensuing ruckus from the burning coffin being extinguished. Probably ended up disfigured because he didn't get immediate help for fear of being caught. 5. Same as four: There was a ruckus when Ralph smashed the box's wall. We just don't see the ensuing pandamonium, but given the screaming and the amount of water gushing out, I'd get out of the area in case there was a lot of electrical gear outside. I like that scene as well as the piano playing, though I still think it wouldn't have continued from where Bill started/stopped. This one's one of my favorites from the series, and one of the ones I remember watching in it's first run. I also like how Katt was in the box doing the bits of the water torture trick. While he probably wasn't in the closed box except for the first part, it still added to the fact that it was him and not a stunt double. I also like the bit of confusion after the holograph that he still felt fine after it, meaning the suit did allow him to hold his breath, at least a little bit longer.
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Post by jopierce on Aug 28, 2006 12:01:16 GMT -5
CARLINI!!!!!Having Bill Maxwell and Garak together in one episode was awesome. I consider them both to be absolutely the best characters ever created for television. Sorry about the Garak-heavy post. I would put in some of my favorite Maxwell lines but there's so many and everyone knows them already. ;D Those who don't know Garak, just picture Andrew Robinson saying these lines, and you'll get the idea. Maxwell and Garak....they rock! V-Fox! No, YOU rock my world!!! I couldn't agree more!
How did I miss this post?
My two guys... love them both. Love them!!![/size]
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Post by Videofox on Aug 28, 2006 18:11:16 GMT -5
Thank you thank you! Nice to meet yet another who appreciates the awesomeness that is Elim Garak! People who never watch DS9 (or not watched it regularly enough) have truly missed out. You never knew from one appearance to the next if Garak was going to be a good guy or a bad guy. That show had recurring characters that were better developed than other shows' leads! Also in that category is Marc Alaimo (thug from "There's Just No Accounting...") that played DS9's Gul Dukat. Dukat and Garak HATED each other...leading to a great exchange from an episode in which they were working together to fend off an invasion of the station: Garak (drawing pistol): "Whoever thought that the two of us would be fighting side by side?" Dukat: "Just remember when you fire that thing, you're aiming it at a Klingon." Garak: "I'll try to keep that in mind." Just the way Robinson delivered that last simple line was priceless. DS9 would not have been the same without Robinson, just as GAH would not have been the same without Culp.
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Post by jopierce on Aug 28, 2006 19:19:46 GMT -5
They really are two of my favorite characters, ever. Add into the mix H.M. Murdock and Edmund Blackadder... I am truly not worthy.
Have you read the book Robinson wrote? I loved it, but only by convincing myself that as a memior written by Garak I couldn't trust a word of it... brilliant.
I once read an interview where Robinson had hoped that Garak would get into a relationship with Kira. LOL! Never could happen. Ziyal was ok, but not good enough for him, I think. (At least, not in terms of matching wit.) Hey, I'm biased.
I think you have mentioned most of my favorite Garak quotes... But it's hard to tell. There are so many. Do you also remember the tone he used with O'Brien on Empok Nor? (Not an exact quote, I don't think. Can't remember)
Garak: And I would love nothing more than to play against a man like you....
That was so perfect, so well timed.
Bashir: Still the man of mystery. Garak: Oh, you wouldn't have me any other way
[/size]
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Post by Videofox on Aug 28, 2006 21:44:08 GMT -5
Yeah I read his book..."A Stitch In Time." It was pure Garak all the way. As for the truthfulness of it all, maybe he put all that behind him after his experiences on the station, but on the other hand, once you get into the habit, it's kinda hard to quit.
Hence another favorite quote:
"Lying is an art form like any other. In order to get good at it, one must practice constantly."
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Post by jopierce on Sept 1, 2006 17:46:02 GMT -5
[shadow=red,left,300] CARLINI!!!![/shadow] You call me a criminal??[/tt]
Thank you to Ms Boku!!!
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Post by The J-Man on Sept 1, 2006 22:22:48 GMT -5
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Post by jopierce on Sept 2, 2006 12:11:57 GMT -5
Ah, man, I just IMBD'd Robert Donner, and he passed away - just this past June.
He seems to have had a really nice career.
*sigh*
I guess we all have got to go sometime. It is nice that he is remembered. I was just talking about him yesterday; I was showing a friend this scene, which I love so much. He recognized him from other work.
*Another sigh*
Everyone, let's hold hands and give a group "CARLINI!!" for Robert Donner, 1931-2006.
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Post by jopierce on Sept 2, 2006 12:26:48 GMT -5
Ok, I have another question about this episode.
It's the scene where Ralph is trying his card trick in the car.
Pam picks a card out of Ralph's deck. She shows it to Bill. Then Ralph picks the card out of the deck. She is amazed that he picked the right card, but then Bill says that he had seen another card.
How many of you think that Bill was messing with Ralph and Pam's heads? Maybe Ralph did get it right, but Bill, being Bill, just wanted to be a major spoilsport. It is classic Bill.
Anyone else ever see it that way, or is it just me?
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Post by Ms Boku on Sept 2, 2006 12:56:17 GMT -5
Snicker...
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