|
Post by helane4bill on Aug 4, 2007 11:30:13 GMT -5
I am agreeing with you. There were much better ways to handle Ralph's and Pam's departure that would have been so much better and in tune with their personalities. The writers decided to go the other way, that is all I am saying. Why? I don't know. This pilot was not thought out well. It was probably not too seriously considered, maybe bcause it was just a test run and not really a whole pilot. They just filmed a few scenes and that is it. That is the reason it sucked. I think given a better departure for Ralph and Pam, a better (and less annoying) actress for the lead (although perhaps the writers meant her to be that way), and a full two hour real concept story with real meaning, and maybe, they could have had a decent show. I like to watch the GAHeroine for what it is...........a failed attempt to re-make the show with a woman in the suit which totally disregards the prior personalities of the characters. I watch and realize that is all it was. (And of course, I watch Culp, being still so sexy....that is enough for me!).
|
|
|
Post by MelMac on Aug 4, 2007 15:18:48 GMT -5
I am agreeing with you. There were much better ways to handle Ralph's and Pam's departure that would have been so much better and in tune with their personalities. The writers decided to go the other way, that is all I am saying. Why? I don't know. This pilot was not thought out well. It was probably not too seriously considered, maybe bcause it was just a test run and not really a whole pilot. They just filmed a few scenes and that is it. That is the reason it sucked. I think given a better departure for Ralph and Pam, a better (and less annoying) actress for the lead (although perhaps the writers meant her to be that way), and a full two hour real concept story with real meaning, and maybe, they could have had a decent show. I like to watch the GAHeroine for what it is...........a failed attempt to re-make the show with a woman in the suit which totally disregards the prior personalities of the characters. I watch and realize that is all it was. (And of course, I watch Culp, being still so sexy....that is enough for me!). While it would probably fit in the why it didn't suck, I think that it was good they cast who they did as Holly given that they didn't have much of anything to work with after they had to butcher the two hour into a one hour. It's fairly obvious to even younger viewers now that much thought didn't go in cutting out things. Given that, casting Holly as they did was pretty much setting it up to fail, and it just put the nail in the coffin as far as this attempt. Plus, they changed some of the show's history and concept with the way her suit was designed. It doesn't work if anyone has a modicum of what the original show was about. Example, even in the '96 TV movie of "Doctor Who" while they added a lot of ties to the original run of the series that viewers here wouldn't understand, they did try to bring a refreshing idea to the show. This case, the TARDIS felt more lived in, there were subtle ways of showing the Earth was falling victim to the Eye of Rassilon's effects (time distortions, walking through glass without injury), etc. Sure, most wouldn't get some of the things mentioned, but at least they tried, and it's actually a very good TV movie (though I wish McGann had been considered as the Doctor to start the new run. He was fantastic in that movie). I don't know what the writers were considering for Holly. Listening to the words of the dialogue - not how they're said - it sounds like they wanted Holly to be a strong female role who would get surprised at things with the suit at times, but not nearly as often as Ralph. The problem was, in turn they made her too perfect, especially since she knows how to use some of the suit powers without a problem - flying and not knowing about holographs were the exception. Mary Ellen Stuart unfortunately also made the words less palatable because for the most part she didn't speak them with the proper meaning - especially after getting the suit. I think the two scenes she shows promise are the talk with Ralph before getting the suit and the last scene where Bill overheard Holly telling who'd probably be third string utility Sarah about the suit and Bill. The rest in between makes campiness look serious.
|
|
|
Post by Nicol on Aug 6, 2007 9:55:41 GMT -5
Ok I think one of the reasons it sucks is Ralph's punishment. (everyone has already stated the acting and out of charater stuff). I mean could the GG be any meaner.
1. They take the suit away from Ralph
2. They fire him and say hey go find your replacement. can you imagine that. That would be like you working your butt of for a company for 5 years and then one day the boss calls you in and says your fired pack up your stuff and leave, oh and by the way you have to find and hire your replacment. Just think how you would feel. 3. They leave him with the memories. This would mean not only the last fire years, but also the memories of the fact he screwed up. Granted Ralph cursed the suit at times but I think he liked being able to help people dispite that . (he wouldn't have done it for five years if he didn't like it). And now all he is left with is memories of what was, knowing he can't do that anymore.
I don't think it would have been that easy to just walk away. Bill makes a comment about this in "My heros have always been cowboys." He says Ralph can't give up the suit, that it would ruin him if he did. I believe that would be true espesially the way they did it.
4. The GG let Bill continue as a second. That to me is just wrong. they were a team, and probly should have been punished as a team and recieved the same reprimand. I know when I would go to a site/scene, I would have a partner and we were a team. If either one of us screws up, then we both get reprimaned. I don't see why this wouldn't be true for Ralph and Bill.
ok that is my two cents!!
|
|
|
Post by MelMac on Aug 6, 2007 12:59:50 GMT -5
Ok I think one of the reasons it sucks is Ralph's punishment. (everyone has already stated the acting and out of charater stuff). I mean could the GG be any meaner. 1. They take the suit away from Ralph 2. They fire him and say hey go find your replacement. can you imagine that. That would be like you working your butt of for a company for 5 years and then one day the boss calls you in and says your fired pack up your stuff and leave, oh and by the way you have to find and hire your replacment. Just think how you would feel. 3. They leave him with the memories. This would mean not only the last fire years, but also the memories of the fact he screwed up. Granted Ralph cursed the suit at times but I think he liked being able to help people dispite that . (he wouldn't have done it for five years if he didn't like it). And now all he is left with is memories of what was, knowing he can't do that anymore. I don't think it would have been that easy to just walk away. Bill makes a comment about this in "My heros have always been cowboys." He says Ralph can't give up the suit, that it would ruin him if he did. I believe that would be true espesially the way they did it. 4. The GG let Bill continue as a second. That to me is just wrong. they were a team, and probly should have been punished as a team and recieved the same reprimand. I know when I would go to a site/scene, I would have a partner and we were a team. If either one of us screws up, then we both get reprimaned. I don't see why this wouldn't be true for Ralph and Bill. ok that is my two cents!! Will say the only thing worse than searching for your replacement is being told that someone was searching for one, but the person was already hired. You hit several points on the dot. The fourth point you mention didn't make sense to me either because, as in "Vanity," Ralph almost got stripped of the suit because of what Bill was doing - and he didn't interfere with what was going on. The dialog to between the green guys, Ralph and Pam goes from Bill having his memories erased to being Holly's teammate. It also makes it worse when it's one of the lamest reasons to lose the suit, especially since Beck did a lot worse.
|
|
|
Post by Ms Boku on Aug 6, 2007 22:37:54 GMT -5
Ok I think one of the reasons it sucks is Ralph's punishment. (everyone has already stated the acting and out of charater stuff). I mean could the GG be any meaner. 1. They take the suit away from Ralph 2. They fire him and say hey go find your replacement. can you imagine that. That would be like you working your butt of for a company for 5 years and then one day the boss calls you in and says your fired pack up your stuff and leave, oh and by the way you have to find and hire your replacment. Just think how you would feel. 3. They leave him with the memories. This would mean not only the last fire years, but also the memories of the fact he screwed up. Granted Ralph cursed the suit at times but I think he liked being able to help people dispite that . (he wouldn't have done it for five years if he didn't like it). And now all he is left with is memories of what was, knowing he can't do that anymore. I don't think it would have been that easy to just walk away. Bill makes a comment about this in "My heros have always been cowboys." He says Ralph can't give up the suit, that it would ruin him if he did. I believe that would be true espesially the way they did it. 4. The GG let Bill continue as a second. That to me is just wrong. they were a team, and probly should have been punished as a team and recieved the same reprimand. I know when I would go to a site/scene, I would have a partner and we were a team. If either one of us screws up, then we both get reprimaned. I don't see why this wouldn't be true for Ralph and Bill. ok that is my two cents!! Will say the only thing worse than searching for your replacement is being told that someone was searching for one, but the person was already hired. You hit several points on the dot. The fourth point you mention didn't make sense to me either because, as in "Vanity," Ralph almost got stripped of the suit because of what Bill was doing - and he didn't interfere with what was going on. The dialog to between the green guys, Ralph and Pam goes from Bill having his memories erased to being Holly's teammate. It also makes it worse when it's one of the lamest reasons to lose the suit, especially since Beck did a lot worse. That's why, among the othe reason, why I wrote my story. It was just wrong. But after reading this I had a thought...(no comments HD ) that if passing the suit on will erase everyones memory and Pam Ralph and Bill are the only ones who can remember...who has the power here. the GG's or the suit. I think the GG's because if they are in charge of who gets to keep their memories, then why can't they just say 'bad Ralph' we'll give you one more chance but if you do this again the suit goes by by. and erase everyones memories? Plus it really wasn't Ralph's character.
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 6, 2007 22:59:35 GMT -5
It sucked because Pam was not in the suit. Only reason.
|
|
|
Post by Ms Boku on Aug 6, 2007 23:17:06 GMT -5
It sucked because Pam was not in the suit. Only reason. Oh yeah that too.
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 7, 2007 7:51:39 GMT -5
It sucked because Pam was not in the suit. Only reason. Oh yeah that too. Even though none of you want to admit it, that is the only reason it sucked. Pam would have looked better in the suit than anyone else we have seen wear it. She wouldn't have been so wishy washy as Ralph and would stand up to Bill more often if she thought something wasn't kosher. Even the GGs did not want to cross her by taking her memories. Her not getting the suit is the ONLY reason HEROINE sucked.
|
|
|
Post by MelMac on Aug 7, 2007 12:53:55 GMT -5
Oh yeah that too. Even though none of you want to admit it, that is the only reason it sucked. Pam would have looked better in the suit than anyone else we have seen wear it. She wouldn't have been so wishy washy as Ralph and would stand up to Bill more often if she thought something wasn't kosher. Even the GGs did not want to cross her by taking her memories. Her not getting the suit is the ONLY reason HEROINE sucked. She would've been a better choice than Holly. Of course, it'd been interesting to see Ralph as third-string and her in the suit (even though that idea's been dabbled with). (Knowing she was in "Hotel" and couldn't do this makes me really want to see it when it comes out on DVD. Had to have been a really good job in order for her to not do this show. Katt was doing well in the "Perry Mason" movies, and personally, I wish he stayed through all of them over William Moses.) Just about anyone could've been in the role of Holly and played it better than Mary Ellen Stuart.
|
|
|
Post by jopierce on Sept 4, 2007 19:19:59 GMT -5
Here's another reason why it sucked...
A lot of us agree that it didn't have the same feel. A big part of that is the different dynamics of the main characters.
But by the time Heroine was filmed, fashions and styles had changed enough, and the actors had aged enough, that no one even really looked the same as in the original!
It's one thing when a series evolves, and you slowly see the changing styles over time... But in heronie, it neither felt like - or even LOOKED like - the same team. .
|
|
|
Post by Captain Marbles on Sept 8, 2007 10:11:22 GMT -5
When Ralph and Pam are taken aboard the Green Guys' space ship, and they're moving along that conveyer belt, we see some Great Leaders of History making their famous speeches on the wall beside them. great Leaders like Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Adolph Hitler—
Adolph Hitler?!
That's right. Apparently, the Green Guys have a bigger problem with a publicity seeker than they do with a mass murderer. Kind of makes me wonder if they'd have let Ralph keep the suit if he'd used it to dispense justice "Dirty Harry" style. ("These are the most powerful jammies in the Universe, and with them, I can rip your head clean off—")
|
|
|
Post by MelMac on Sept 8, 2007 10:26:32 GMT -5
When Ralph and Pam are taken aboard the Green Guys' space ship, and they're moving along that conveyer belt, we see some Great Leaders of History making their famous speeches on the wall beside them. great Leaders like Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Adolph Hitler— Adolph Hitler?!That's right. Apparently, the Green Guys have a bigger problem with a publicity seeker than they do with a mass murderer. Kind of makes me wonder if they'd have let Ralph keep the suit if he'd used it to dispense justice "Dirty Harry" style. ("These are the most powerful jammies in the Universe, and with them, I can rip your head clean off—") Ironically, they use one of Hitler's speaches in the original pilot as well, because you hear him speaking and the audience going "Zeig Heil" then an anthem. (One of the few things right about them in this attempt IMHO). I've wondered too if or at a time they erroneously thought he was a great leader and now use him as as what happens if power is used wrong. But, that's speculation on my part. But, you're right, it does raise suspisions and mystery as to the Greenguy's past. Maybe some listened to Hitler more and became rogue green guys, which lead to the destruction of their homeworld. I do think though, that if they use him as an example of a leader and are upset because Ralph had endorsements and was on "SNL," then I'd be concerned.
|
|
|
Post by mmderdekea on Sept 8, 2007 10:40:11 GMT -5
Perhaps playing devil's advocate, the GG have great Early leaders mixed with dictators to show that, indeed, with great power comes great responsibility--for good or evil. They do need to study humanity to know what to expect when giving a human a truly powerful suit, and an FBI partner the capacity to help direct the actions of the suit wearer and help decide which cases the suit should be used for. BIG responsibilities for both of them!
So, it makes sense that the GG would study representations of the best and worst of Earthlings with power, to help them understand the dichotomy of human beings. Of course, one supposes--at least I do--that the GG studied Bill and Ralph even for years before deciding to choose them, to ensure that they didn't make another mistake as they did with Beck (although Marshall seems to have always been an A-One guy); studied them to learn their own goodness and badness and which outweighed the other.
If humans went to another planet and discovered intelligent life, we would study the good and bad of their past to learn the full breadth of the inhabitants personality make-up. It makes sense for the GG to do the same. Who we humans are as a species is everyone from the Buddha to serial killers, from Mother Theresa, to Stalin, to the everyday person on the street, basically good but flawed, like Bill and Ralph. Including Adolf Hitler.
Mona
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 8, 2007 10:41:53 GMT -5
When Ralph and Pam are taken aboard the Green Guys' space ship, and they're moving along that conveyer belt, we see some Great Leaders of History making their famous speeches on the wall beside them. great Leaders like Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Adolph Hitler— Adolph Hitler?!That's right. Apparently, the Green Guys have a bigger problem with a publicity seeker than they do with a mass murderer. Kind of makes me wonder if they'd have let Ralph keep the suit if he'd used it to dispense justice "Dirty Harry" style. ("These are the most powerful jammies in the Universe, and with them, I can rip your head clean off—") I have always liked that because it shows continuity in the Greenguys over time to show Hitler in both the pilot and the spin-off pilot. I think Hitler is used as an example of a great person (and for all the wrong he did, he was both a great leader and a great speaker) that did something wrong. I think that the Greenguys are showing the possibilities of what MIGHT happen, much as what happened with JJ Beck. Plus, had the series continued, maybe we would have found out that Hitler had a suit too and this is why they use him as an example and is a reason WHY they are so heavy-handed over time...a tragedy that they do not want to repeat.
|
|
|
Post by mmderdekea on Sept 8, 2007 16:21:13 GMT -5
Hitler had a suit too! Come on! The First Real Reason for me to use this emotikon with you, HD: Mona (finally!) ;-)))
|
|
|
Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 9, 2007 11:15:04 GMT -5
Hitler had a suit too! Come on! The First Real Reason for me to use this emotikon with you, HD: Mona (finally!) ;-))) Glad I could help. You always need to grow and adapt as a member, Mona. And while I doubt he had one, it does make you wonder more about the Greenguys being so hard on Ralph and future suit wearers. (I almost misspelled your name as "Moan." I know, I know: Take it to the Smut Board).
|
|
|
Post by mmderdekea on Sept 9, 2007 11:41:24 GMT -5
Heck, I almost misspell my name the same way, especially after posting something about Bill Maxwell....
Mona (....you know...in pleasure....yeah, yeah, smut board, going there right away...)
|
|
|
Post by MelMac on Sept 9, 2007 22:23:42 GMT -5
That's nothing, whenever I write club or cult lately, it's come out as Culp. Not too problematic here, but still... bit wacky.
|
|
dolfyn
Agent
As good as me.
Posts: 342
|
Post by dolfyn on Jun 7, 2008 23:42:30 GMT -5
Because I'm a newbie here, I'm rather late in commenting on this. I think everyone's pretty much covered what makes TGAHeroine suck so much. So I'll just say that I really hated it (apart from the "goodbye scene", maybe) & I'll be pretending it doesn't exist; just like I do with the Star Wars prequels & the new Indiana Jones movie! They're wrong. So, so wrong!!! Feel the love. dolfyn.
|
|
|
Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Jun 24, 2008 10:19:55 GMT -5
Hey, Dolfyn!
I'm with ya. Other than the 'goodbye scene' (which that blonde ditz still 'almost' managed to ruin by sticking her face in at the end - lol), I didn't find much of any worth in Heroine.
You mentioned the Star Wars prequels. Are you including the final prequel ("Revenge...") in there too? Just curious because I was surprised at how good that was, but I hear the first two were pretty much crap.
Thoughts?
|
|