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Post by MelMac on Aug 2, 2007 14:05:40 GMT -5
Sounds more like something Katt would have come up with. I agree. I think he and the writers knew that they would have to find SOME way to give over the suit and they focused on the JJ Beck scenario of getting carried away. Again, until someone can tell us what the original two hour pilot would have been like, we cannot say that it was uncharacteristic. Characteristic or not (which that extreme isn't for Ralph ), it's a very lame reason why the suit was passed over. People forget JJ Beck lost the suit not just because he was greedy, but also because he destroyed other's lives, in one case someone committed suicide because he lost everything at Beck's (and the suit's hands). Ralph loses it for letting ego get to his head... huh, strong enough reason to lose the suit. I think Babs Greyhosky, who helped write it could've found a better reason. I know of a few that did for their continuations/spinoffs in fanfic. I seriously doubt Katt would want it that way... go from a character that he has said he did like playing/found intriguing (albeit the suit's another story) to something that's almost a farce of that character. Of course, I can't read his mind, but I'd be that way if I were him. This holds doubly true given the whole series Ralph was, while he had his moments, was mostly giving and humble. A save the whales script would fit Ralph too, so it makes me wonder a lot about what was going on behind the scenes of the spinoff attempt. It does sound like something Katt would write, but he also is known for surfing (i.e. Big Wednesday), and from what I've read of that idea around the web, it was actually intriguing over the way this idea was conceived here.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 2, 2007 14:52:15 GMT -5
To me, it sounds like they took the Culp script that was originally focused on saving the whales and used it to buttress the spin-off, maybe that is the reason (and being a series cast member) inspired Culp. Even though Mona mentioned money, if he took it for that reason, then he is just another actor that does not care about his craft. Otherwise, he took the part because he liked what he saw.
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Post by mmderdekea on Aug 2, 2007 19:05:51 GMT -5
To me, it sounds like they took the Culp script that was originally focused on saving the whales and used it to buttress the spin-off, maybe that is the reason (and being a series cast member) inspired Culp. Even though Mona mentioned money, if he took it for that reason, then he is just another actor that does not care about his craft. Otherwise, he took the part because he liked what he saw. That's a little harsh, HD, to ptentially judge a whole actor's value system based on perhaps one job that his heart may not have been wholly into, but kept him busy and paid him. Culp's WHOLE CAREER was based on his committment to his craft; every show he worked on he concentrated on making it the best he could. His script for Trackdown is considered to be the best one the show produced; same with his magnificent 7 I Spy stories, and his "Cain's Hundred" "The Swinger" episode. In fact, Culp has a reputation for being difficult to get along with at times, because he didn't want to settle for crappy plots and poor directions and stupid stories. So, we KNOW he is and always has been committed to acting, as well as writing and directing (which he does equally well to acting). We don't know Culp's motivation for the show, but I'm very interested to hear it may have been his idea for the Save the Whales plot. If folks really studied Bill Maxwell they'd know that deep down under his generational/career tough guy persona, he cares about cats, dogs, horses, lost little boys, juvenile delinquents, and best friends. He really is a very sensitive fellow--you just have to push him a little bit and let him know it's OKAY to care, you still know he's a tough guy if he does. So, having Bill work to save whales, initially aghast at the idea, but then being right there to help out, follows Bill along the lines of several of the GAH episodes. Anyway, we don't know why Culp did it. No need to disparage him out of ignorance of what occurred behind the scenes, kind of accusing him of something that is blatantly not true about him. Someone break out into "Stand By Your Man" for me--I can't sing worth crap! ;-))) Mona
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 2, 2007 20:01:40 GMT -5
To me, it sounds like they took the Culp script that was originally focused on saving the whales and used it to buttress the spin-off, maybe that is the reason (and being a series cast member) inspired Culp. Even though Mona mentioned money, if he took it for that reason, then he is just another actor that does not care about his craft. Otherwise, he took the part because he liked what he saw. That's a little harsh, HD, to ptentially judge a whole actor's value system based on perhaps one job that his heart may not have been wholly into, but kept him busy and paid him. Culp's WHOLE CAREER was based on his committment to his craft; every show he worked on he concentrated on making it the best he could. His script for Trackdown is considered to be the best one the show produced; same with his magnificent 7 I Spy stories, and his "Cain's Hundred" "The Swinger" episode. In fact, Culp has a reputation for being difficult to get along with at times, because he didn't want to settle for crappy plots and poor directions and stupid stories. So, we KNOW he is and always has been committed to acting, as well as writing and directing (which he does equally well to acting). We don't know Culp's motivation for the show, but I'm very interested to hear it may have been his idea for the Save the Whales plot. If folks really studied Bill Maxwell they'd know that deep down under his generational/career tough guy persona, he cares about cats, dogs, horses, lost little boys, juvenile delinquents, and best friends. He really is a very sensitive fellow--you just have to push him a little bit and let him know it's OKAY to care, you still know he's a tough guy if he does. So, having Bill work to save whales, initially aghast at the idea, but then being right there to help out, follows Bill along the lines of several of the GAH episodes. Anyway, we don't know why Culp did it. No need to disparage him out of ignorance of what occurred behind the scenes, kind of accusing him of something that is blatantly not true about him. Someone break out into "Stand By Your Man" for me--I can't sing worth crap! ;-))) Mona You read it wrong. I was talking about Katt. I said that Culp had good reasons to be in it. I was using a comparison. So watch your ignorance comments...you don't know he is a great man either.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 2, 2007 22:25:41 GMT -5
Problem is, it reads as though you mention Culp, and this is reading it five times. As I've said before, money issues aside (that's always a bit with anything you do work wise), Katt was obligated to "Perry Mason," and Connie "Hotel," so even if both really wanted to do a restart of the series (and I've had feelings they might've, but that's another story), they couldn't do it. While Katt disliked the suit, he has never said he disliked the role of Ralph. (But I will admit that you can have a like for a role and dislike for an outfit - I've had several in real life). Even if he hated Ralph, there's a classier way to have him hand over the suit than what was scripted. Look at McLean Stevenson in "M*A*S*H." There was a huge debacle behind the scenes and he quit, but even though they killed Henry Blake at the end of his farewell ep (which BTW does not happen even in the book that started it all by Robert Hooke), they made it humorous and classy. The whole ego trip - character or not - was just a lame reason. As far as the whale plot idea Mona, I don't remember exactly where I read it, and it's been a while. All I do remember is that it was (very roughly - dialogue is not overly true of demeanors ) Ralph: "Let's go save the whales" - Bill: "Ah Kid, do we haveta" - Ralph: "Yes, or you can forget me helping with your busts." - Bill: "All right" - they go somewhere to chase down the bad guys - both win, and sometime in there (possibly afterward) they see the humpbacks while on a ship and Bill realizes that what he did really was a great thing to do with the suit afterall. I will admit, for all I know this could've been a fan-based story or a figment of my imagination, as I think this was around the time I was working 50-hour work weeks in a nightmare (or it's closest equivalent in real life). Wish I knew if any of the older members (been around longer than even I have - Insert old joke here. ) had heard of it as well.
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Post by mmderdekea on Aug 3, 2007 9:04:38 GMT -5
Hey, HD,
I have to agree with Mel it seemed you were referring to Culp.
Culp is a great actor, writer and director--I never said he was a great man. It's obvious he's very intelligent, but trust me, I know he comes complete with all the virtues and flaws that beset all of us in our own personal ways.
Mona
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Post by MelMac on Aug 3, 2007 15:41:59 GMT -5
One reason this doesn't suck either is that we get a nice spaceship. While I think it should've been a little darker, it does feel closer to being a spaceship instead of a movie cinema. Why it feels like a cinema to me is all the rectangles for some reason. If they did bring the show back - reunion movie or restart with a new team - it'd be fun to see a combination of the two ideas and bring them together. One thing I like too is the backdrop there with the Earth. It really feels as though they're on the ship as it hovers over Earth well. In the series, I feel as though Bill was out for a little longer in "DVS" and they traveled a distance away from Earth then we see as Ralph was initially recovering in stasis. Then again, Ralph would've lost quite a bit of blood so it'd take a little longer to heal, so that would give some plausibility to them already traveling around in the ship. There is one tiny touch that I liked too in the story - FDR's and JFK's memorable and inspirational quotes to Ralph's arrogant comments about breaking a bottle with his teeth on "Saturday Night Live." It shows a drastic change from him being humble and fighting for the good to using the suit for gain. It's also interesting that Hitler's comments were removed in this go around compared to the pilot - but given Hitler's power-crazed life, putting Ralph's comments in its place fits the contradiction well.
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