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Post by Ms Boku on Aug 19, 2007 16:00:56 GMT -5
Well my explanation for the suit forget thing is that it wasn't live in case they were to make fools of them selves. After all the prez wouldn't want to look stupid on national tv. Some of this can be explained in my story if you haven' t read it. www.fanfiction.net/s/2795209/1/Time_Heals_All_Woundsyes it's a plug but it's done.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 19, 2007 20:37:45 GMT -5
Well my explanation for the suit forget thing is that it wasn't live in case they were to make fools of them selves. After all the prez wouldn't want to look stupid on national tv. Some of this can be explained in my story if you haven' t read it. www.fanfiction.net/s/2795209/1/Time_Heals_All_Woundsyes it's a plug but it's done. Yes, but a TV station would have been prepped to GO live because the President was there and ready. Years of broadcasting experience coming to play there.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 19, 2007 22:32:02 GMT -5
Well my explanation for the suit forget thing is that it wasn't live in case they were to make fools of them selves. After all the prez wouldn't want to look stupid on national tv. Some of this can be explained in my story if you haven' t read it. www.fanfiction.net/s/2795209/1/Time_Heals_All_Woundsyes it's a plug but it's done. Yes, but a TV station would have been prepped to GO live because the President was there and ready. Years of broadcasting experience coming to play there. You do have a point, as it would've been live by the time that the president introduces himself to Ralph. The only way around it is that the president greeted himself to Ralph before doing it again for the media. That said, maybe the greenguys were secretly involved there and did help erase the memories of those who watched the report. Since they admit that they can make the world forget, what's to say that couldn't happen (that is outside of what some consider GAH canon.)
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 20, 2007 7:17:13 GMT -5
Yes, but a TV station would have been prepped to GO live because the President was there and ready. Years of broadcasting experience coming to play there. You do have a point, as it would've been live by the time that the president introduces himself to Ralph. The only way around it is that the president greeted himself to Ralph before doing it again for the media. That said, maybe the greenguys were secretly involved there and did help erase the memories of those who watched the report. Since they admit that they can make the world forget, what's to say that couldn't happen (that is outside of what some consider GAH canon.) Even though I know people hate the idea, I am still of the opinion that the world will forget in the same way the world forgot about Ralph pitching for the Stars...over time.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 20, 2007 8:58:29 GMT -5
You do have a point, as it would've been live by the time that the president introduces himself to Ralph. The only way around it is that the president greeted himself to Ralph before doing it again for the media. That said, maybe the greenguys were secretly involved there and did help erase the memories of those who watched the report. Since they admit that they can make the world forget, what's to say that couldn't happen (that is outside of what some consider GAH canon.) Even though I know people hate the idea, I am still of the opinion that the world will forget in the same way the world forgot about Ralph pitching for the Stars...over time. True... worked for the episode in the first place. But yeah, like anyone this day and age, most will forget something like that over time anyway. The only reason they harped on it more was to have a reason to have Ralph lose the suit. (It's the worst handover ever IMHO, and even beats the show "Doctor Who" trying to get Colin Baker to do a regeneration into the Seventh Doctor after he was fired from the role. He's a good actor, but ended up a scapegoat for the show.)
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 20, 2007 10:08:46 GMT -5
Even though I know people hate the idea, I am still of the opinion that the world will forget in the same way the world forgot about Ralph pitching for the Stars...over time. True... worked for the episode in the first place. But yeah, like anyone this day and age, most will forget something like that over time anyway. The only reason they harped on it more was to have a reason to have Ralph lose the suit. (It's the worst handover ever IMHO, and even beats the show "Doctor Who" trying to get Colin Baker to do a regeneration into the Seventh Doctor after he was fired from the role. He's a good actor, but ended up a scapegoat for the show.) I still see them harping on it more not only to have a handover idea, but to get the idea that Ralph is atoning for his "sins" in the suit by making him find a suitable replacement.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 20, 2007 12:25:29 GMT -5
True... worked for the episode in the first place. But yeah, like anyone this day and age, most will forget something like that over time anyway. The only reason they harped on it more was to have a reason to have Ralph lose the suit. (It's the worst handover ever IMHO, and even beats the show "Doctor Who" trying to get Colin Baker to do a regeneration into the Seventh Doctor after he was fired from the role. He's a good actor, but ended up a scapegoat for the show.) I still see them harping on it more not only to have a handover idea, but to get the idea that Ralph is atoning for his "sins" in the suit by making him find a suitable replacement. It's called adding insult to injury there with him finding his replacement. Besides, as it's said elsewhere, it's odd the greenguys would do that, especially given the situation that started it all. For all they knew, Ralph would choose someone like he was before being stripped of the suit - and in a way did with Holly. Plus, IMHO, based on the greenguys' demeanor in "Heroine," Holly should've lost the suit when she started the fight in the bar.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 20, 2007 12:27:49 GMT -5
I still see them harping on it more not only to have a handover idea, but to get the idea that Ralph is atoning for his "sins" in the suit by making him find a suitable replacement. It's called adding insult to injury there with him finding his replacement. Besides, as it's said elsewhere, it's odd the greenguys would do that, especially given the situation that started it all. For all they knew, Ralph would choose someone like he was before being stripped of the suit - and in a way did with Holly. Plus, IMHO, based on the greenguys' demeanor in "Heroine," Holly should've lost the suit when she started the fight in the bar. Holly was doing right and was new...sort of a grace period overall. Even in the pilot, Ralph got away with not knowing how to control all of the powers yet...the same credit should be given to Holly. As for the replacement, my only beef is that JJ Beck was not required the same service...or maybe he was and that was something we did not see...and he chose someone that went bad too. (Missing scene alert for you, Mel. ) I think it is a good idea. If he chose someone that the Greenguys could respect to do the job that they had tasked Ralph to do, Ralph had made up for his compounding his error.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 20, 2007 12:34:16 GMT -5
No, Ralph didn't intentionally try to start things because he had the suit, Holly did, even in the pilots of both. Bill was telling her "You don't do it that way Holly" but she ignored them. You don't need a suit power to start something like that. Still a lame reason to have Katt out and Stuart in regardless. There were so many things done in the Heroine attempt that contradicted each other (in the case of Holly's suit design, the show), that I do not consider it canon. It has too many loopholes (i.e. Ralph finding his replacement, Bill going from having his memories erased of his time with Ralph (Per green guy's comments) to suddenly being Holly's partner), that can be countered around and such.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 20, 2007 12:37:47 GMT -5
No, Ralph didn't intentionally try to start things because he had the suit, Holly did, even in the pilots of both. Bill was telling her "You don't do it that way Holly" but she ignored them. You don't need a suit power to start something like that. Still a lame reason to have Katt out and Stuart in regardless. There were so many things done in the Heroine attempt that contradicted each other (in the case of Holly's suit design, the show), that I do not consider it canon. It has too many loopholes (i.e. Ralph finding his replacement, Bill going from having his memories erased of his time with Ralph (Per green guy's comments) to suddenly being Holly's partner), that can be countered around and such. Yes, it is easy to counter what you don't like by wishing it away. I am not saying that Ralph started anything in the pilot. I am saying that it was understandable that they allow a grace period to let the suit wearer try and get a grip on the powers. As for the suit design, we know it changes. It may have loopholes, but so did Ralph's...so did Beck's from the sound of it. Bill might be a late addition, but that is not to say it was a loophole...part of that scene could have been edited where Pam and Ralph stand up and do a great job for Bill saying why he should get to retain his memories. As for the replacement, I think I have provided food for thought about why it might have been a necessary requirement on the part of the Greenguys. After all, other scripts had huge holes too. Thinking that you should suddenly consider all HANLEY scripts invalid too? If SJC considers it canon, I think it should be too...after all, it was HIS series.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 20, 2007 12:43:26 GMT -5
No, Ralph didn't intentionally try to start things because he had the suit, Holly did, even in the pilots of both. Bill was telling her "You don't do it that way Holly" but she ignored them. You don't need a suit power to start something like that. Still a lame reason to have Katt out and Stuart in regardless. There were so many things done in the Heroine attempt that contradicted each other (in the case of Holly's suit design, the show), that I do not consider it canon. It has too many loopholes (i.e. Ralph finding his replacement, Bill going from having his memories erased of his time with Ralph (Per green guy's comments) to suddenly being Holly's partner), that can be countered around and such. Yes, it is easy to counter what you don't like by wishing it away. I am not saying that Ralph started anything in the pilot. I am saying that it was understandable that they allow a grace period to let the suit wearer try and get a grip on the powers. As for the suit design, we know it changes. It may have loopholes, but so did Ralph's...so did Beck's from the sound of it. Bill might be a late addition, but that is not to say it was a loophole...part of that scene could have been edited where Pam and Ralph stand up and do a great job for Bill saying why he should get to retain his memories. As for the replacement, I think I have provided food for thought about why it might have been a necessary requirement on the part of the Greenguys. After all, other scripts had huge holes too. Thinking that you should suddenly consider all HANLEY scripts invalid too? If SJC considers it canon, I think it should be too...after all, it was HIS series. Point is, you see Heroine as canon, I do not. Don't know about SJC, but he didn't write the script. Connie IMHO feels it's not canon, based on her comment that she had her daughter be the Greatest American Hero, not heroine, and I have had feelings Katt wasn't happy with it either. But that's my two cents. The HANLEY incident was only because of John Hinckley trying to assassinate the president. It was a call to change it I think not only out of respect for the president (given how close he came to dying), but also because some person would probably complain that the show was disrespecting Reagan because they're letting the hero use a villain's name. But, I don't know if the latter's true, just speculation.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 20, 2007 13:02:19 GMT -5
Yes, it is easy to counter what you don't like by wishing it away. I am not saying that Ralph started anything in the pilot. I am saying that it was understandable that they allow a grace period to let the suit wearer try and get a grip on the powers. As for the suit design, we know it changes. It may have loopholes, but so did Ralph's...so did Beck's from the sound of it. Bill might be a late addition, but that is not to say it was a loophole...part of that scene could have been edited where Pam and Ralph stand up and do a great job for Bill saying why he should get to retain his memories. As for the replacement, I think I have provided food for thought about why it might have been a necessary requirement on the part of the Greenguys. After all, other scripts had huge holes too. Thinking that you should suddenly consider all HANLEY scripts invalid too? If SJC considers it canon, I think it should be too...after all, it was HIS series. I see it as canon because SJC put it with the GAH franchise out on DVD. He helped revitalize it even if he did not write it. He did not write every GAH script either. Does this mean THOSE are not canon? Connie did her work in GAH though...it makes sense she would prefer to remember it over the five minute appearance in a spin-off. Katt never seemed happy with either. I agree, but I am just using it as an example of how things have loopholes, but that does not mean it is not canon. Plot holes are to be expected, especially regarding GAH and HEROINE...Consider the franchise.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 20, 2007 14:51:17 GMT -5
One minor quibble about Katt and the show I get annoyed at with people: He tends to mention not liking the suit more than the show itself. He generally speaks highly, if not always flowers and fluffy bunnies, of the show, even if he is confused as to why it's as popular as it is. Can't blame him here either, as I've been that way with some shows nowadays ("Why are they popular?").
And, SJC for all we know put GAHeroine on the DVDs as a way to make add a bonus feature and have a mark up on the DVD. But, IMO, I think Cannell didn't have much of a hand if at all in the spinoff attempt because if I were him, I'd quibble about Holly having 3/4-length sleeves. If the powers are in the suit, not protecting parts well and we see Ralph get knocked unconscious three times in the series wearing it, I would argue that with 3/4 sleeves, Holly's forearms aren't protected properly and can be broken if she gets hit hard enough.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 20, 2007 17:51:59 GMT -5
One minor quibble about Katt and the show I get annoyed at with people: He tends to mention not liking the suit more than the show itself. He generally speaks highly, if not always flowers and fluffy bunnies, of the show, even if he is confused as to why it's as popular as it is. Can't blame him here either, as I've been that way with some shows nowadays ("Why are they popular?"). And, SJC for all we know put GAHeroine on the DVDs as a way to make add a bonus feature and have a mark up on the DVD. But, IMO, I think Cannell didn't have much of a hand if at all in the spinoff attempt because if I were him, I'd quibble about Holly having 3/4-length sleeves. If the powers are in the suit, not protecting parts well and we see Ralph get knocked unconscious three times in the series wearing it, I would argue that with 3/4 sleeves, Holly's forearms aren't protected properly and can be broken if she gets hit hard enough. As has been mentioned elsewhere in the past, just like the head is protected via some "suit extenstion" of powers, so too might the arms be with the new suit.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 20, 2007 18:25:09 GMT -5
One minor quibble about Katt and the show I get annoyed at with people: He tends to mention not liking the suit more than the show itself. He generally speaks highly, if not always flowers and fluffy bunnies, of the show, even if he is confused as to why it's as popular as it is. Can't blame him here either, as I've been that way with some shows nowadays ("Why are they popular?"). And, SJC for all we know put GAHeroine on the DVDs as a way to make add a bonus feature and have a mark up on the DVD. But, IMO, I think Cannell didn't have much of a hand if at all in the spinoff attempt because if I were him, I'd quibble about Holly having 3/4-length sleeves. If the powers are in the suit, not protecting parts well and we see Ralph get knocked unconscious three times in the series wearing it, I would argue that with 3/4 sleeves, Holly's forearms aren't protected properly and can be broken if she gets hit hard enough. As has been mentioned elsewhere in the past, just like the head is protected via some "suit extenstion" of powers, so too might the arms be with the new suit. True, but same scenario as with the wearer's head - some protection. THat doesn't mean her arm couldn't break if she punched steel or something to punch a hole in it.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Aug 21, 2007 16:41:40 GMT -5
Funny how SJC and Co. played slash and burn with all the cover songs originally used in GAH but somehow Greatest Love Of All survived untouched in GAHeroine on the Season 1 DVD set. Someone explain THAT one to me, please.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 21, 2007 18:19:16 GMT -5
Funny how SJC and Co. played slash and burn with all the cover songs originally used in GAH but somehow Greatest Love Of All survived untouched in GAHeroine on the Season 1 DVD set. Someone explain THAT one to me, please. Must consider it canon enough to keep the music...or since it was not released originally, the deal was made to keep that song.
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Post by MyTatuo on Aug 22, 2007 16:59:30 GMT -5
What I don't get in Heroine...
If they were going to change the suit (glittery, one-piece, shorter sleeves), why not just make it invisible? Instead of getting caught wearing a ridiculous outfit like a mental patient, Holly could just be strutting around in her invisible supersuit.
mm mm mm mm
oop, sorry, lost in thought there...
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 22, 2007 17:00:53 GMT -5
What I don't get in Heroine... If they were going to change the suit (glittery, one-piece, shorter sleeves), why not just make it invisible? Instead of getting caught wearing a ridiculous outfit like a mental patient, Holly could just be strutting around in her invisible supersuit. mm mm mm mm oop, sorry, lost in thought there... You do have a point...and it is a good one..similar to one that Ralph brought up in the pilot. Why DOES it have to be longjohns and a cape? Notice they never ask the Greenguys that. And I don't blame you for wanting hers invisible.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 22, 2007 17:48:09 GMT -5
What I don't get in Heroine... If they were going to change the suit (glittery, one-piece, shorter sleeves), why not just make it invisible? Instead of getting caught wearing a ridiculous outfit like a mental patient, Holly could just be strutting around in her invisible supersuit. mm mm mm mm oop, sorry, lost in thought there... While I get the joke in there too ( ), it does make sense. I mean, they totally changed it, so why just keep it in the first place? They had pretty much done things that were contrary to the series, so they could've designed the suit to be something other than a unitard. But could've been worse... They could've turned the suit into a pair of pajamas with a trap door in the back and a bunny rabbit on the front of them. Would've fit the "Anything's Pawsable" bit and Holly's like for bunny rabbits. (I haven't seen "The Monkees" in a few months, but that image of Peter Tork in the outfit is easy to remember. )
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