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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Oct 28, 2005 8:13:15 GMT -5
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Post by The J-Man on Oct 28, 2005 8:30:53 GMT -5
Yeah, what a shock. What's tomorrow's headline going to be? "The Pope Is Catholic"?
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Post by billswoman on Oct 28, 2005 8:49:22 GMT -5
Well, being a Trekker first and foremost (yes, even over being a Maxwell Maniac), this certainly caught my attention. I have to admit, I never thought of him being gay, but then again, my gay-dar doesn't seem to work very well. I'm not surprised, actually, but it's nice he felt he could now come forward with it. Like the article said, things have changed quite a bit since his younger days. I knew about the internment camp, because it was here in Washington State that he was in one. Very sad chapter in our history. When I moved here to WA and learned about how we put our own citizens into camps, I was aghast and appalled; I didn't believe it at first! I've read a bit by Takei about the experience, how it's a pall that hangs with these fellow Americans for decades, feeling guilty and ashamed of what they were and are. Now, as for his name on the show being "Hikaru Sulu," I ain't even going there....  |
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Oct 28, 2005 9:06:46 GMT -5
Heheheheheeheh... oh man... I can just imagine all the "WARP FACTOR 9" jokes that are going to come flying in this weekend...
;D
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Post by MrsMaxwell on Oct 28, 2005 15:37:23 GMT -5
I can see the George Ta-gay jokes already. Not to mention the "Beam Me Up" jokes as well. "Oh My!"
(I'm saying that social observation, not as a put down. I am from NJ after all, and you all know about our last governor.)...
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Oct 28, 2005 20:49:56 GMT -5
I never watched Trek so I don't know, but you think he would have felt able to reveal it earlier in life...the gay movement has had a lot of popular support for quite some time...especially on the west coast. Maybe he should get a gay common law certificate.  |
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Post by The J-Man on Oct 28, 2005 22:34:59 GMT -5
Now, as for his name on the show being "Hikaru Sulu," I ain't even going there....  "Star Trek Generations" |
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Post by billswoman on Oct 29, 2005 1:36:47 GMT -5
OK, I couldn't resist... about Sulu's given name.
First off, per Japanese tradition, it'd be Sulu Hikaru (they have the family name first).
Second off, the name came from a Star Trek novel, a fanfic essentially (that was officially published). Big debate in the Trek community: are novels canonical? Many say "NO!" some say, "Well, it depends on who wrote it." Okay, fair enough. Eg, I consider things DC Fontana, the woman who basically created all things Vulcan, as canon.
However, I don't consider the story "Hikaru" first made an appearance in as canon. It was "The Entropy Effect" by Vonda McIntyre. She seems to have something in for Scotty cuz she, without fail, always depicts him as a little whiny baby.
Some would then argue, Yes, but then it appeared in a film as "Hikaru," ergo it's canon.
And I say B.S. I don't consider Trek by way of Satan, aka Rick Berman, as canonical. But that's an entirely different argument.
I personally don't mind "Hikaru" it's just how it came about that irks me. "Hikaru Sulu", per McIntyre's novel, means "Shining One."
Same with Uhura's name, which has been acknowledged as Nyota ("Star"): it was introduced in a novel, I believe in "Uhura's Song," one of the excellent Trek novels. Her name means "Star Freedom." We learn in a Trek ep that Uhura (or Uhuru, as I've seen also, I think for men) means Freedom.
One of my main gripes about Berman is centered around Kirk's middle name of Tiberius. Berman has decreed that the Trek animated series is NOT canon, yet that's where we get Tiberius from. What a hypocrite.
I know I've gone on about this before, I'm sure, but what the hey, this IS the off-topic thread... and I hope I ain't making Bill's eyes water with the drivel (or nattering as my Dad called it... made his eyes water too.)
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Post by deadzoneleaperhero on Oct 29, 2005 3:09:09 GMT -5
Berman is an idiot (See Star Trek: Nemesis). The Animated Series should be seen as canon. It introduced the Holodeck in episode "Practical Joker". The ANimated Series should be seen as Classic Trek Season 4. The episodes were taken from scripts that were written in the event that NBC would renew the show after "Turnabout Intruder" in Season 3. They whittled down the stories into a half hour premise. PS, if you want to see a better and hilarious "R" rated version (only for language) of Nemesis, click here: www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html |
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Post by The J-Man on Oct 29, 2005 8:30:19 GMT -5
First off, per Japanese tradition, it'd be Sulu Hikaru (they have the family name first). Actually, you're confused. That's Bajorans you must be thinking about. |
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Post by billswoman on Oct 29, 2005 9:28:34 GMT -5
Berman is an idiot (See Star Trek: Nemesis). The Animated Series should be seen as canon. It introduced the Holodeck in episode "Practical Joker". The ANimated Series should be seen as Classic Trek Season 4. The episodes were taken from scripts that were written in the event that NBC would renew the show after "Turnabout Intruder" in Season 3. They whittled down the stories into a half hour premise. PS, if you want to see a better and hilarious "R" rated version (only for language) of Nemesis, click here: www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.htmlCool, a fellow Trekker in da house! I'm happy to say I've never seen Nemesis. I was too ticked off after First Contact, which is the crux of my main complaint about Berman, not just the name thing. He seems to wish the original series never existed, coming out with that POS. The whole Zephram Cochrane thing ticks me off. As you probably know, deadzone, we meet ZC in "Metamorphosis" and he ain't James Cromwell. I like Cromwell, a LOT, he's fun and a good actor, but he's just not Cochrane. |
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Post by deadzoneleaperhero on Oct 29, 2005 11:45:35 GMT -5
I did like First Contact and I like James Cromwell as an actor, but it did always bug me about how they wrote Zephram's character. I understand the idea of showing how someone really is compared to how history paints that person, but because Zephram was already shown in Metamorphosis, it makes no sense. I have trouble picturing JC becoming the person who we'll "later" see with the Companion.
You're not missing much with Nemesis, it was horrible. The link I posted is a pictoral guide to the movie that picks it apart as to why there is no logic to it. Nemesis stole from so many movies (Wrath Of Khan - a character dies and the ending leaves it open for a return, Undiscovered Country - Romulans want peace instead of Klingons, Three Kings, Road Warrior)
p.s.: I follow Old Crew, Next Gen, DS9, Quantum Leap, Dead ZOne, and to a lesser extent Enterprise but the series finale almost killed the whole show for me, it was so bad (thanks again Berman). If Scott Bakula (Quantum Leap) wasn't on ENterprise I wouldn't have followed it. In its defense since the first 2 seasons were not that good, the 3rd and 4th seasons were really good. UPN cancelled it just as new writers were finally taking the show in the right direction. The first 2 seasons of Next Gen were bad until it finally figured itself out.
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Post by billswoman on Oct 29, 2005 11:52:03 GMT -5
I'm a classic Trekker, which I include TAS in, then DS9, VOY and TNG. I don't count ENT. I mainly like TNG for Q, Picard and Data. I didn't care for VOY that much, at first, but it certainly got better. I'm a total Tom Paris fan, rowr rowr. It was the only Trek available to me for a while, not having cable, so I'd watch it and discovered it wasn't so bad, esp. toward the later seasons. I just LOVE DS9, almost as much as TOS.
I go through phases, though, on which particular show/fandom I love, but it'll always be Trek for the number one position, even over GAH. I didn't even watch all of GAH in my college days, having a social life and what with ABC screwing around with the schedules like it did. It wasn't until late July/early August this year, when I was camping out at my friend's house mid-move to our new place, that I re-discovered GAH all over again via her Season Two DVDs. Didn't even look at S1, and S3 hadn't come out yet. She indulged me and let me watch them repeatedly, esp "Lilacs, Mr Maxwell." When I watched O:SS, I kept waiting for Eve of Destruction, and began thinking I was nutso for thinking it was there originally. Since then, of course, I've learned how the songs were changed.
Anyway, it'll be GAH and I Spy for a while yet; still so many IS eps I haven't seen, and I've still got Box Set 3 to get. And watching GAHeroine has opened up a whole new universe of possibilities for fanfic, whoohooo!!
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Post by deadzoneleaperhero on Oct 29, 2005 12:03:29 GMT -5
Like I posted in a different thread, I had written a lot of Quantum Leap fanfic and was considering a GAH: Next Gen idea but someone said it seemed more superhero than comedy. But I believe that if a movie or another series comes along and tries to re-create the original tone it won't work. GAH worked because of the time it was in during the early 80's. Re-creating it with the same tone now will make it seem stale, I think.
At the sime time, I wouldn't want GAH to be as saturated as the Trek fiction market is. There are so many books out for Trek (and Star Wars) now that I refuse to read it all. I remember reading one book written in the late 80's called Spock's World that had McCoy's middle initial wrong (In Star Trek III, it is Leonard H.!!!!). AS soon as I saw the error, I threw the book out, never finished it.
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Post by billswoman on Oct 29, 2005 12:32:16 GMT -5
LOL but Spock's World is SUCH a good one!! In fact, I've got it right nearby, been reading off it over the last week or so (that and Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, whichever is close to hand).
I know what you mean about the ST and SW markets being saturated. I remember in my younger days the thrill of a new Trek novel coming out maybe twice or three times a year, then it started being almost monthly, then all these various and sundry series of books started coming out, and somewhere along the way I lost interest. I went to Borders and Barnes & Noble recently, and was overwhelmed by all the Trek books. All I wanted was a copy of "The Wounded Sky" by Diane Duane, my single favorite Trek novel of all time, and it was like wading through a miasma of garbage to find it (which I never did).
As for GAH fiction, it's funny you mention that... I'm going to write an actual GAH novel and actually try to get it published for real, not via the Internet. I think it's about time there is one, don't you? Don't have the faintest idea where to begin, of course, but what the hey, other new writers start somewhere, I'm sure I can figure it out. Now, where's that plot? Where's my agent?
I know this is going OT from the original thread, but I wasn't sure where to put this, so if a moderator wants to move it, or have me move it, that's fine by me. I imagine it'd go like this: I write it, I find an agent to show it to, and if he or she thinks it's worthy, he or she does the footwork to get it published, and gets a cut of the money? Is that about right?
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Oct 29, 2005 12:36:47 GMT -5
You might be better off to talk directly with a publishing house and see what they suggest. Agents are more for acting.
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Post by MrsMaxwell on Nov 4, 2005 8:31:38 GMT -5
Jean-Luc Picard kicks ass! (I've been waiting to say that). I hated TNG when it debuted, but grew to like it better than the original. I never got into DS9, or "Enterprise".
I am starting to watch "Voyager" which I think is awesome. I can't believe I NEVER watched that show! I'm trying to think, "What the heck was I doing for the past 10 years?". Then I remembered I was wasting time and money in nightclubs. Thank god for Netflix and re-runs!
I did attend a few cons, but felt out of place...(like I did at Chiller Theater). I don't own a uniform or even a trek t-shirt, and I collect nothing. I got autos from Michael Dorn, Patrick Stewart, and James Doohan. Doohan was the nicest guy! He sat down at the table next to us in the restaurant. I said "Hi Jim" and he said "Hi" back. The people I was with were frozen. They couldn't believe I had the nerve to initiate a conversation, or that he was sitting right next to us. Later that day, I was the last in line to get an auto and picture with him. He actually remembered me. He said, "Weren't you the young lady who said hello to me this morning in the restaurant?" I was shocked. It was nice to know that there were stars that really appreciated the fans. We stayed and talked with him for while. he told us that Shatner thought that TNG would flop, and was two-faced toward the TNG cast. Nice to their faces, but bad-mouthing them behind their backs. (Keep in mind this was in 1987).
Anyway, it's a great series!
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Post by billswoman on Nov 4, 2005 11:45:36 GMT -5
Ah, let me tell you my Jimmy Doohan experience, may he rest in peace.
The very first time I saw him was at the premier of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Jimmy was a long-time resident of Washington, living in Kirkland (east of Seattle, near Microsoft-land). He and his daughter were at the biggest theater in the southend, which could hold 1500 people, and it was a packed house. He and his daughter came out on stage to talk about the movie and field questions from the audience. I was there with about 15 friends from college, and it was a magical night. STII is still my favorite of all the Trek movies.
Jump ahead a bit, to the Sci-Fi Xpo at Seattle Center. They'd decorate the top of the Space Needle to look like a flying saucer, and if you positioned yourself just right on Queen Anne Hill (where the Wilson sisters from Heart have lived for quite some time), it looked as if this "space ship" had landed on the road!
Any way, he, John Landis, Sandahl Bergman and one other, can't remember, were the guests of honor at this event. They were at their table, waiting to sign autographs (back in the day when it didn't cost anything, of course) and I was first in line with my stack of Trek books (including my Starfleet Technical Manual). John Landis hadn't come out yet, so I was politely waiting for him before moving up to the table. Jimmy was looking expectantly at me, wondering why I was just standing there. He finally smiled and went, Well? My friend, right behind me, SHOVED me, hard, and I went stumbling in front of Jimmy, almost tripping with my books. He grinned up at me, and I went, Um... HI! He was so kind and sweet to me. I asked him if it was a problem to sign six things (I'd never asked ANY celeb for an autograph before, so I was very shy).
He said, Sure, what do you have? So he started through the pile, and when we got to the tech manual, I shyly asked, Can you sign that as Scotty? He smiled and said, Sure, and signed it "Montgomery Scott." (See, Scotty was supposed to have been one of the consultants for the 'official' tech manuals cadets use.)
Any way, while he's doing this, I'm admiring the jacket he's wearing: The Star Trek IV cast jacket; it was BEAUTIFUL! AND it had a picture of the ENTERPRISE on it! If you recall, in Star Trek III, we see the Enterprise die in a blaze of glory as it burns up in the atmosphere, so how in the world could it be in STIV?? I asked him, and he said, I can't tell you! Then I asked, Hey, can I have that jacket?? Obviously he said "No."
But he was so kind and gracious; I've never heard anyone who's met him say otherwise. When I worked at Microsoft in Bellevue (customer service), I came back from lunch and one of my coworkers said, Helen, you're gonna die when I tell you this! I asked him what, and he said, I saw Jimmy Doohan down at the Texaco during lunch! (the Texaco was right across the street from the market I got lunch at... missed him by THAT MUCH!) I was like DOH!!
As for the Trek series, I like them in this order:
Original (of course)
Animated
DS9
Voyager
TNG (Q, Picard and Data are the only ones worth watching on this one)
(I don't count that excrement "Enterprise" as Trek)
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Post by MrsMaxwell on Nov 4, 2005 16:06:32 GMT -5
To be honest with you, I'm just not into TV anymore. I can't think of 1 show I watch on a regular basis. I've been watching a lot of older films on TCM lately. There was a time, years ago, when I could tell you what show was on what channel at any given time. Seems like everything is reality TV or crime drama re-hash. The only exception is "Lost". I have heard so much about it, that I am going to rent the DVD's from Netflix. Other than that, NOTHING peaks my interest. Have you noticed how Hollywood is dry in the original ideas department lately? If I see one more TV show re-made into a movie, I'm gonna puke!
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Nov 7, 2005 17:14:11 GMT -5
I agree...it is RARE for them to remake a good show into a movie...SGT. BILKO and MAVERICK were not bad, considering.
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