Wizards and Warlocks

[enovak]

I watched this finally on the DVD set and it really was a fun episode. Much better then I remembered it being from my old tapes.

Bill has some great lines in this.
And I forgot how great Whitmore Jr was in it.

[scenario]

Honestly, IMO, I rank it as one of the worst 5 GAH episodes. It's hard for me to even sit through this one.


-scenario-

[enovak]

I used to hate it too. Now I find it very funny. Not one of the better episodes mind you, just funny.

Also pokes fun at 2 crazes i lived thru at the time, video games and D&D.

[MiltonMaxwell]

I admit that although this is still not a favorite of mine at all, I have enjoyed the "bad episodes" from 3rd season much more this time around. Of the episodes I absolutely HATED, I found myself enjoying (to some extent) It's Only Rock and Roll (if he only dated Pam Anderson it would have been reality television!), Space Ranger, and I actually consider Live at Eleven one of the better 3rd season episodes. Maybe it is because my expectations weren't so high this time around.

[HoudiniDerek]

I think Wizards and Warlocks is funny because of the game when Bill tries to explain it to everyone at the FBI...some scenes are too classic.

We should all get together and try to recreate games like that and play them and everything. Wouldn't it be fun, especially on nights like Halloween?

[enovak]

That's what i thought was so funny - they got a lot of mileage out of the game being so over complicated it made it funny. Like after Pam tries to explain everything to Bill, Bill says: "I'm dyin' here!"

And the stuff with Byron Bi...I mean Norman were classic.

But I havent watched my cut tape in so long I don't even no what scenes were new. Anyone can tell me maybe?

[MiltonMaxwell]

Well, the complicated game angle was cute. A bit off topic I remember a comic strip (Foxtrot) where the nerdy little kid in the strip finally got his sister to play. She spent two weeks creating her character and he killed her off two seconds after the game started. She was so mad at him, and yelled, "you said this would be fun!" He replied, "yea, I just didn't say who for." People still play that game you know?

[enovak]

miltonmaxwell said:

Well, the complicated game angle was cute. A bit off topic I remember a comic strip (Foxtrot) where the nerdy little kid in the strip finally got his sister to play. She spent two weeks creating her character and he killed her off two seconds after the game started. She was so mad at him, and yelled, "you said this would be fun!" He replied, "yea, I just didn't say who for." People still play that game you know?

That happened to me! My friends tried to get me to play D&D but I would always die so fast I gave up after a while. But I was in college when GAH was on it D&D was HUGE.

[jopierce]

The whole idea of Bill being interested in D&D (or W&W) is just complete scholck.... And for that reason, I love this episode.

And the whole Who's the Keeper of your clock...

J...
Edgar ...
HOOVER! ...

I mean, how is that not funny?

And the whole cheese factor from start to finish is wonderful.

Not to mention STAMBOULI. Who can forget Stambouli?[/size]

[HoudiniDerek]

Is that what you like about SPACE RANGER too, Josie? That Bill plays video games when that is anti-Bill too?

I LOVE this episode the more I watch it!

[jopierce]

I actually don't think Bill playing video games is inherently anti-Bill. He was older, so maybe he never saw them before. Maybe he thought it was like pinball or something... but then when he realized it was TARGET PRACTICE, or SHOOTING DOWN BAD GUYS FROM SPACE, he probably liked it.

I bet he went out and bought himself an Atari system. And I bet he still plays it today in 2007 in his one room flat.

[HoudiniDerek]

jopierce said:

I actually don't think Bill playing video games is inherently anti-Bill. He was older, so maybe he never saw them before. Maybe he thought it was like pinball or something... but then when he realized it was TARGET PRACTICE, or SHOOTING DOWN BAD GUYS FROM SPACE, he probably liked it.

I bet he went out and bought himself an Atari system. And I bet he still plays it today in 2007 in his one room flat.

But why is the W&W cheesy? It could be seen similarly...more of a deductive reasoning skills test and such...he should like that too.

[jopierce]

Well, I agree with you... but it wasn't executed well. It was executed in a cheesy way. He used phrases like deceitful trolls to convince his colleagues. If he had translated it into a format that would have been acceptable for a buncha feds, it would have shown his deductive skills in a good light, not in the caricature fashion that later season episodes so often do...

[HoudiniDerek]

jopierce said:

Well, I agree with you... but it wasn't executed well. It was executed in a cheesy way. He used phrases like deceitful trolls to convince his colleagues. If he had translated it into a format that would have been acceptable for a buncha feds, it would have shown his deductive skills in a good light, not in the caricature fashion that later season episodes so often do...

I can see that. I think that if they would have listened to him, he was making sense, but that they would have to put the proper labels on themselves. I love that he calls them all half a pixie and stuff though.

[jopierce]

So what terms would he have used then to translate W&W into FedTalk?

Bird dog?
Mouthpiece?
Snitch?


Others?

[HoudiniDerek]

Instead of talking about WIZARDS OF THE FIFTH RING, he could have talked about different departments and how they interact and how the different rankings might affect their investigative techniques and such.

I am shocked you didn't know that.

You sound like this lady:

[MelMac]

jopierce said:

I actually don't think Bill playing video games is inherently anti-Bill. He was older, so maybe he never saw them before. Maybe he thought it was like pinball or something... but then when he realized it was TARGET PRACTICE, or SHOOTING DOWN BAD GUYS FROM SPACE, he probably liked it.

I bet he went out and bought himself an Atari system. And I bet he still plays it today in 2007 in his one room flat.

It'd be a neat trick, since apparently they're playing an Intellivision. it's got those combo cursor/button control pads. They have the joysticks too true, but those were accessories at the time for that system as well. The console is also like the Intellivisions.

[mmderdekea]

W&W was shot when it was very topical at the time, and the audience for GAH was targeted overall for that demographics, so it makes good sense they shot an episode about that sort of game. I really enjoyed the episode myself, but then again, there is something I love in every episode of GAH that makes it worthwhile to pull out of its case and plug it into the DVD player.

Bill's initial dislike of the game, based on its ridiculous complexity and his judgement that it was an idiotic thing for kids that age to waste their time with (after all, around that age HE was in Korea), falls victim, as it so often does, to him changing his mind completely around and deciding the game has real value, even to crime-solving. We see Bill having an innate opinion which is changed during the course of the episode numerous times--such as in saving the horse in "Desperado"; even the "Pilot" regarding Ralph as his partner; helping out others via the suit in "Good Samaritan", etc. Bill's flexibility with his opinions is one of his best traits as a person--he is willing to change his point of view at times drastically when presented with evidence to do so.

Anyway, W and W has its goofy, over the top moments, and I do agree with Jo, that Bill's error in explaining the game in relationship to the FBI was terribly flawed in regards to not changing terminology.

I also liked the moment when Bill, eating the Sultan's fruit, is told that the Sultan's enemies have tried to poison the Sultan--Bill's gagged swallowing of the grape is priceless and for a moment we seem to get a glimpse of Carlisle actually caring if Bill is choking to death or not.

Mona

[mmderdekea]

Re: Space Ranger--a little off topic

I know others are probably going to disagree with me, but regarding Bill playing video games with Alan, I think it is absolutely a strong part of his personality to do so. Looking at Bill in numerous episodes, when push comes to shove, we see Bill truly as a type of nurturer of others. Yes, our tough Fed, when help is needed is right there, ready and willing to care and help others, even though his words may still be somewhat contrary and in one's face. We see him holding onto Ralph when he falls through a broken stair, his stealing hospital supplies to put on Ralph's injured back, holding Ralph up when Ralph develops a terrible migraine after his last mind push, holding him tightly in the car after Ralph is shot, his caring for the cat which causes allergies in him, his calming Ralph down so he can holograph after Pam is kidnapped, his taking care of his old partner Harlan, and so forth--Bill usually comes through for folks when they need him to.

Alan in Space Ranger was naturally terrified by the invasion into Ralph's home, guns blaring around him, and Bill equally naturally took off after him to protect him. It's very much in Bill's nature as shown in several episodes to agree to play video games with Alan to calm him down, just as Bill himself explained he did. I think it makes sense for Bill's character. As does his helping Alan out with the CIA in the tag scene. As does his eating cold Chinese food out of his fridge for breakfast, which if that's a qualification for joining the FBI, I would be a Department Supervisor by now....

(sorry, back on WW topic)

Mona

[HoudiniDerek]

mmderdekea said:

Re: Space Ranger--a little off topic

I know others are probably going to disagree with me, but regarding Bill playing video games with Alan, I think it is absolutely a strong part of his personality to do so. Looking at Bill in numerous episodes, when push comes to shove, we see Bill truly as a type of nurturer of others. Yes, our tough Fed, when help is needed is right there, ready and willing to care and help others, even though his words may still be somewhat contrary and in one's face. We see him holding onto Ralph when he falls through a broken stair, his stealing hospital supplies to put on Ralph's injured back, holding Ralph up when Ralph develops a terrible migraine after his last mind push, holding him tightly in the car after Ralph is shot, his caring for the cat which causes allergies in him, his calming Ralph down so he can holograph after Pam is kidnapped, his taking care of his old partner Harlan, and so forth--Bill usually comes through for folks when they need him to.

Alan in Space Ranger was naturally terrified by the invasion into Ralph's home, guns blaring around him, and Bill equally naturally took off after him to protect him. It's very much in Bill's nature as shown in several episodes to agree to play video games with Alan to calm him down, just as Bill himself explained he did. I think it makes sense for Bill's character. As does his helping Alan out with the CIA in the tag scene. As does his eating cold Chinese food out of his fridge for breakfast, which if that's a qualification for joining the FBI, I would be a Department Supervisor by now....

(sorry, back on WW topic)

Mona

I agree that this is better suited for either its own thread on Bill's nurturing or in the Space Ranger thread. You could always copy/paste it and then delete here.

As for WIZARDS, I have loved this episode. I agree with Mona that it is entirely in the nature of the time to get involved with it and I think that Bill's transformation is funny and accurate, as I mentioned before in this thread.

The one thing that my wife HATES about the episode is Norman Fackler. She hates how they left him in the sewers thinking that he could get out on his own. They didn't even LOOK for him was her biggest problem. They just called and left messages and the episode showed him getting out, but not showing if the team ever saw him again and stuff. Otherwise, this is one of her favorites because it is so outlandish...and usually she doesn't like GAH at all.

She is somewhat like Mr. Noir in that respect at times....