scenario
Agent
"We all do what makes us feel good."
Posts: 335
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Post by scenario on Aug 11, 2006 9:16:43 GMT -5
I'll throw in my money's worth. To echo some other comments, I always figured JJ Beck to be a sort of suit spoiler for Ralph. Beck f-ed things up for everyone, so now the greenguys are more watchful of everyone they hand out suits to. It's like how rules can get stricter and harsher if some guy before you screws up. In the case of GAHeroine, the world found out about Ralph and the suit, so the greenguys "made the world the forget" ( ) by giving the suit to someone else. I always wondered why the greenguys basically killed the chopper pilot in DMAWJ, but then again they have been known to deal a stern Old Testament like hand on things before. It's sorta cold how they let all those bad guys wind up in the nuthouse because they reported seeing "a man fly". Perhaps they figure the bad dudes get whats coming to them. If the series was able to run longer, it would have been cool to explore the greenguys a bit more, maybey even scale back their powers and make them more fallable. An episode where the greenguys were proven wrong and Ralph and Bill right would have been a nice turn around. They are so God-like in the series.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 11, 2006 10:50:00 GMT -5
Actually, the pilot may not have died. The bad guy did not...he was picked up walking on the highway according to the paper the next morning.
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Post by MelMac on Aug 11, 2006 11:14:10 GMT -5
Even with the world finding out about Ralph, the greenguys could've made them forget but let Ralph have the suit still. They should've given a whole better reason to lose the suit.
(HD might want to sit down) I'd been a lot happier with Holly getting the suit if Ralph handed over the suit in a logical way, such as he and Pam choose to have kids or he's getting too old to safely wear the suit (the latter of which I used in "Ties..." but that's set where Ralph's in his 50s, like Katt. He is too old to logically wear the suit now).
Now, back to "Jim," I wonder if they could've added a scene with Pam trying to get the guys. I do think out of all of them without Connie in the main action, I think it's the best. I don't miss her as much (though I do) as something like "200 MPH fastball" and "O:SS." But, that might be more of the theme of Las Vegas nowadays "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas."
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Maveric
Counselor
Superior Human
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Post by Maveric on Aug 12, 2006 10:30:39 GMT -5
I recently re-watched this episode after having not seen it in over a decade.
I could have "sworn" that when I originally saw this episode, JJ Beck mentioned that he had a suit, very much like Ralph's but his was blue. He also taught him a new power (forgot what it was) by tapping on the belt buckle twice...
I wrote a lot of fan fiction back in my younger days, so it might have been from those memories...
I always thought it would have been cool if JJ Beck's Suit was indeed blue in color, and that it was the inspiration for the creation of Superman because the original Superman comicbook authors had interacted with him at one point...
This also brought up the inspiration that perhaps the aliens have been visiting our planet for thousands of years giving their "super powered" clothing to legendary humans. Mabey the green guys gave a greek hero named Herculese a girdle that gave him great strength and invulnerability, etc...
(btw, first post here)
-Mav
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 12, 2006 10:34:47 GMT -5
I recently re-watched this episode after having not seen it in over a decade. I could have "sworn" that when I originally saw this episode, JJ Beck mentioned that he had a suit, very much like Ralph's but his was blue. He also taught him a new power (forgot what it was) by tapping on the belt buckle twice... I wrote a lot of fan fiction back in my younger days, so it might have been from those memories... I always thought it would have been could if JJ Beck's Suit was indeed blue in color, and that it was the inspiration for the creation of Superman because the original Superman comicbook authors had interacted with him at one point... This also brought up the inspiration that perhaps the aliens have been visiting our planet for thousands of years giving their "super powered" clothing to legendary humans. Mabey the green guys gave a greek hero named Herculese a girdle that gave him great strength and invulnerability, etc... (btw, first post here) -Mav Welcome to the board. That would have been neat, but DC Comics might have had a more likely win in their lawsuit against GAH. As for being blue, Ralph turns blue once in LIVE AT ELEVEN, which is where you might be getting that. As for tapping the belt buckle, Bill tells the bikers that in HOG WILD to get them to jump off the barn roof trying to fly. A new power was taught to Ralph in this episode. JJ Beck's Bill (Marshall Dunn) taught him to do telekinesis. Ralph had to adapt it later by thinking of white paper.
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scenario
Agent
"We all do what makes us feel good."
Posts: 335
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Post by scenario on Aug 12, 2006 10:47:06 GMT -5
I pondered this some more and realized that this episode sorta did give me what I wanted, i.e. some fallability in the greenguys and not these perfect aliens that are always lecturing Ralph.
DMAWJ actually is an episode that illustrates the greenguys screwing up,...before they met Ralph anyways. It was Beck's power mad self that wanted his personal wealth, but the greenguys are involved, thus some of the blame goes to them as well. They left Beck with that suit for so many years, adding even more blame to them. But you just know the greenguys would use their Freudian pyscho-speak logic to argue their way out of being in anyway responsible for what happened with JJ Beck.
This is a great episode for so many reasons, it's so awesome seeing greenguy history immediately prior to Ralph. Assuming there was no new suit recepient and other "American hero" between 1961 and 1981 anyway.
-scenario
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Aug 12, 2006 10:49:13 GMT -5
I have always wondered that too...did they just step back and redesign the suit and think "We have to be more careful next time" or what? Also, who was Marshall Dunn? He was not FBI...why was he Beck's partner?
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Post by jopierce on Sept 18, 2007 22:41:13 GMT -5
Speaking of Beck...
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 18, 2007 22:43:35 GMT -5
I am still curious about who this Marshall Dunn character was....
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Post by Videofox on Sept 18, 2007 22:47:06 GMT -5
I have always wondered that too...did they just step back and redesign the suit and think "We have to be more careful next time" or what? Also, who was Marshall Dunn? He was not FBI...why was he Beck's partner? They didn't exactly say what Dunn used to be as Beck's partner. He could have been FBI (it was named such in 1935, before that it was the DOI (Department of Investigations). The thing is, they just didn't mention it at all. Leaves the door wide open for interpretation.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 18, 2007 22:49:56 GMT -5
True. It made it seem like Marshall was more of a childhood friend...someone that Beck could rely on if necessary to shoulder the burden. I think that might have been part of the reevaluation process of the GG too.
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Post by Nicol on Sept 18, 2007 22:51:00 GMT -5
What ever he started out as I think he eventually quit. and just became JJ's Busines partner and workd as his chief of security for Beck industries.
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Post by jopierce on Sept 18, 2007 22:52:29 GMT -5
They didn't exactly say what Dunn used to be as Beck's partner. He could have been FBI (it was named such in 1935, before that it was the DOI (Department of Investigations). The thing is, they just didn't mention it at all. Leaves the door wide open for interpretation. Good points! I wonder if it would HAVE to be someone in law enforcement. I mean, solving problems is not only a job for the G-men types.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 18, 2007 22:53:23 GMT -5
They didn't exactly say what Dunn used to be as Beck's partner. He could have been FBI (it was named such in 1935, before that it was the DOI (Department of Investigations). The thing is, they just didn't mention it at all. Leaves the door wide open for interpretation. Good points! I wonder if it would HAVE to be someone in law enforcement. I mean, solving problems is not only a job for the G-men types. If he got the suit in the twenties and such, it could have been that Marshall was a diplomat and stuff, trying to stop World Wars...and that this was another failing of him and Beck.
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Post by jopierce on Sept 18, 2007 22:55:54 GMT -5
I am still curious about who this Marshall Dunn character was.... When did Beck get the suit? The 30s?
I think Marshall was just kind of a normal guy... working in a CC camp, building roads.
The things is that Bill and Ralph had a significant AGE difference. Beck and Dunn did not. They look about the same age. So there was a very different dynamic going on there. It wasn't a mentor/suit wearing hero sort of relationship like with Bill and Ralph did.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 18, 2007 22:56:57 GMT -5
I agree that they were of the same age and that is why I think they might have already been friends...before the GG decided that maybe they needed partners with different styles and approaches to things.
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Post by Nicol on Sept 18, 2007 23:24:47 GMT -5
I have to agree with both Jo and HD.
the two seem closer in age than Bill and Ralph. To me Marshell even seems a little younger but that might be because JJ was sick.
I also think they would have to have been freinds at some time before for Marshell to have stuck around during that whole time JJ had the suit.
A pre friendhip could also set up a already established loyalty, and allow JJ to take for granted that loyalty as well. Asumming Marshell will always be there cause he always has been in teh past.
That assumption, dealling with JJ and then what ever caused JJ to lose the suit was thelast straw and eventually cost the freindship.
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Post by mmderdekea on Sept 18, 2007 23:38:43 GMT -5
This is a very interesting discussion.
Beck got the suit in 1935, as he had it 25 years and it was taken from him 1960. I strongly believe that JJ was the first person the GG gave the suit to on Earth and then they flew off and left him for years. Mistake!! They were not monitoring his actions. I wonder if they had just started handing out the suits to folks living on "Garden Planets" and hadn't figured that massive abuse of the suit powers would occur. Or if some crisis called them away for some long time (perhaps a broken warp drive or something). Of course this is all extrapolation and I'm not settled on any specific aspect of it. Anyway, when they came back and saw Beck had mainly used the suit for his own greed and selfishness, actually causing the death of a business competitor, they took it right back.
I think it took the GG years to chose new partners because THIS time they wanted to really study humans and chose the two who would: 1. Not abuse the suit (even though both Ralph and Bill tried to in little ways now and then). On a slight tangent, one wonders if in Live At Eleven, whether Ralph's loss of the mind push power was due either to the GG taking it away from him (as he could not control himself from abusing it) or he lost it due to his own insecurities about using it properly after Pam got so upset and called him a "jerk". 2. Work well together, and even befriend and respect each other--be a perfect balance for each other, to keep each other in line. 3. Have someone like Bill to bring important cases to the suit wearer 4. Not have dreams of being filthy rich and powerful over other humans 5. Have someone like Ralph to have them do some liberal good with the suit 6. Be two innately decent people who could handle unimaginable change and stress with equinamity.
And after some long years they figured out that Bill and Ralph were the perfect pair.
Just some of my thoughts on the great mysteries of that DMAWJ episode.
Mona
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Post by mmderdekea on Sept 18, 2007 23:45:54 GMT -5
Response to Jo and Maxwell's 20-30 year career:
There is also the goofy clay lamp or something that Maxwell has signifying his first real bust in 1953. I personally am of the 20 year camp as, yes, he was in Korea. Now, he could have gotten out of Korea a little early, say 1953, after his gunshot to the lung wound, and be so patriotic and upset he wasn't okay'd to stay in the war he right away applied to join the FBI. It COULD have happened that way, and then they rounded up to 30 from 28 or so. But, that means that Vanity never occurred, which we assume happened after the Korean war when Bill went to South America. (Mind you I'm perfectly happy believing Vanity never occurred and don't really consider it truly part of my reality of Bill; what a mess of an episode!). So, 20+ years is really the most likely scenario here for Bill's career. I'm surprised Culp himself didn't keep tabs on those discrepancies and catch the plot errors.
Mona
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Post by Videofox on Sept 18, 2007 23:58:48 GMT -5
EDIT: I was writing this while mmderdekea was writing, so pardon me if some of this post conflicts. So what can we figure out about the official Beck timeline? The episode only mentions two dates: 1920, when "the dream began." Was that his birthday? The other date mentioned is 1935. That's when he says he bought out his rival's company and the airplane it designed, then after destroying all its subsidiaries, he goes to his home invisible and watches as the guy's life falls apart. That's when he shoots himself. If 1920 is his birth date, he would have gotten the suit as early as age 15. Unlikely. The beginning of the "dream" as the announcer put it could imply that's when Beck started his first business (whatever that was) and began to work his way up. The only other allusion to a date is "Twenty years ago", when Beck says the aliens took his suit away. That would put it circa 1961, give or take a year or two as most people are being vague when they say twenty years ago or ten years ago, etc. So we know he had the suit, at the most, 26 years. He could have bought out the rival company shortly after getting the suit, after he began to realize exactly what it can do. They never mentioned how old Beck was, but we can extrapolate that Beck might have been born around 1905, entered the work force around 15 (the "dream begins" after dropping out of high school), getting the suit by 25 (similar to Ralph), losing it around 1960, and finally "dying" around the age of 76. (This is how I figure it, folks...feel free to debate!) He would have had to be a good person for the greenguys to choose him. Could someone that decent and moral be corrupted so quickly after getting the suit? Or did the greenguys not do extensive research on candidates back then? There's no way to really tell how much time passed between 1935, when Beck bought out the rival company, and when all his subsidiaries were destroyed and the man shoots himself. That could have taken years, if it was an extensive corporation, thus giving Beck enough time to get further corrupted. And the greenguys probably didn't realize true human nature at the time and didn't check on Beck until 1960, and thus "fired" him. This is like watching Star Wars Eps 1-3 and watching the fall of Anakin and the rise of Vader.
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