bat65
Counselor
3rd-String Utility Backup
Posts: 38
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Post by bat65 on Apr 11, 2005 20:04:35 GMT -5
Micheal Pare did "Eddie and the Cruisers" in the break between 2nd and Third seasons. (he revealed this in his interview in the first season box set) May be why he was in only 2 episodes.
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Post by The J-Man on Apr 11, 2005 20:12:31 GMT -5
One episode. One. "The Newlywed Game".
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jimk
Counselor
Posts: 76
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Post by jimk on Apr 12, 2005 6:01:26 GMT -5
Well, Pare was being groomed for stardom (which didn't really happen, not at the theatrical level, anyway, but he made EDDIE, PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT, and the big-BIG budget STREETS OF FIRE) all in 82-84, I think it was really a Travolta-Kotter thing -- I doubt he really wanted to be in the 3rd season as the kids really had nothing significant to do on the show anyway, generally. And as mentioned before, Grant got "V" -- basically, a lot of people noticed these two from the show and they had offers too good to refuse.
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Post by greenguy on Apr 12, 2005 15:09:07 GMT -5
2. What do YOU think were the major factors in the decline of 3rd season? Two major factors contributed to the quality of the 3rd season scripts. As was already stated Cannell was in a major battle with ABC over the series. It was even suggested to him that he not write for his own show. 2nd, in the 3rd season ABC slashed their licensing fee they paid for the series. When that happened, Cannell Productions had to absorb more of the cost for the production of each episode. That's why some things are missing, such as the kids not appearing in as many episodes, and hardly no original music from Stephen Geyer. That also caused the scripts to be less complicted, requiring more set ups, etc. In a nutshell the 3rd season was shot alot more down and dirty than the previous 2 seasons.
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Post by mom2jared on Apr 12, 2005 15:17:08 GMT -5
Plus the main characters got married. Isn't that a major downfall of any show?
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Post by MiltonMaxwell on Apr 12, 2005 15:36:47 GMT -5
Yea, that usually is the death knell, but I did not list it since Pam and Ralph's relationship rarely invovled jealousy (although some great exceptions including The Hit Car and Classical Gas). The problem with marrying main characters is that they loose some of the basis for humor like I Dream of Jeannie where Jeannie no longer to be jealous!!! It changed the whole basis of the show. She was no longer hiding from the Doctor and no longer turning Nelson's dates into frogs! Horrible. Anyway, the whole marriage thing in 3rd season was just a gimmick to try to get viewers to tune it, but it really didn't work, especially since those episodes were rather weak.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Apr 12, 2005 15:42:27 GMT -5
Ralph and Pam getting married never really 'altered' the show in one way or another to me because the shows were never really concerned with any 'relationship' either of the two had except with each other. To me, it just moved from Ralph calling Pam his fiancé in one episode to his wife in another. Plus, half the time, Ralph was calling her his fiancé and they weren't even engaged yet!
Anyone ever notice how, after Ralph proposed to Pam in "This Is The One The Suit Was Meant For", that you didn't see any wedding rings on either of them in the episode that followed ("The Resurrection of Carlini")? Whoops.
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Post by The J-Man on Apr 12, 2005 16:59:03 GMT -5
...some things are missing, such as the kids not appearing in as many episodes, and hardly no original music from Stephen Geyer. As I mentioned previously, the kids did appear in 6 out of the 13 episodes of Season Three. If you take the final 13 episodes of Season Two and count them, the kids appear in exactly six episodes. Now wait here while I go get my abacus..... yup, just as I suspected; six is equal to six. Though Season Three did have noticeably less songs, we did get some good ones. If I had to rank them from my favorite to my least favorite, I think it would go like this: 1) "Opposites" from Divorce, Venusian Style2) "Everything You Dream" from The Newlywed Game3) tie "Big Shot" from The Price is Right3) tie "Desperado" from Desperado4) "A Bicycle Built For Two" from The is the One the Suit Was Meant ForThe great and powerful Oz has spoken.
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Post by mom2jared on Apr 12, 2005 19:03:16 GMT -5
I think the Resurection of Carlini was before the wedding. I don't think it was meant to be after the wedding. Am I wrong?
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scenario
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"We all do what makes us feel good."
Posts: 335
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Post by scenario on Apr 13, 2005 5:32:35 GMT -5
Two major factors contributed to the quality of the 3rd season scripts. As was already stated Cannell was in a major battle with ABC over the series. It was even suggested to him that he not write for his own show. 2nd, in the 3rd season ABC slashed their licensing fee they paid for the series. When that happened, Cannell Productions had to absorb more of the cost for the production of each episode. That's why some things are missing, such as the kids not appearing in as many episodes, and hardly no original music from Stephen Geyer. That also caused the scripts to be less complicted, requiring more set ups, etc. In a nutshell the 3rd season was shot alot more down and dirty than the previous 2 seasons. What I don't understand though, is how did they have the money to so greatly improve the flying effects then? In one way, it does appear that the 3rd season was shot more down and dirty when you look at what was missing compared to the other two. But when I look at the vastly improved flying effects, the 3rd season doesn't look all that cheap. -scenario
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Post by mom2jared on Apr 13, 2005 6:54:19 GMT -5
I don't know the order of production but according to this site, Carlini came before the wedding. I think it was because Cannell wanted to generate more viewers because the super bowl was being aired at the same time as he planned to run "The Newlywed Game" so he moved the episode up a week.
Am I right?
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jimk
Counselor
Posts: 76
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Post by jimk on Apr 13, 2005 11:30:38 GMT -5
Technically, I don't think Cannell was making those decisions -- when episode orders are switched around, generally it was the network (ABC) doing it. I remember an old NBC show, THE DEVLIN CONNECTION, w/ Rock Hudson and Jack Scalia...I was but a wee lad, but me and my dad watched it weekly. It was the 5th week or so when an episode appeared where the dad (Hudson) reconnected with his son (Scalia) and they pretty much layed out the show -- apparently, NBC wasn't crazy about the pilot, so they started w/ an episode they liked better -- but it was pretty idiotic to see the 2 characters getting to know each other when they'd already been solving crimes for over a month! (The show didn't last much longer than that)
Actually, in Culp related news, I SPY famously had its pilot (which was weak) bumped to around Christmas -- they led with one of the Culp-written episodes, SO LONG PATRICK HENRY, because it was the strongest one -- but the "pilot" certainly had more of a lets-introduce-the-characters-feel...
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Post by greenguy on Apr 13, 2005 13:04:00 GMT -5
I think the Resurection of Carlini was before the wedding. I don't think it was meant to be after the wedding. Am I wrong? Your right, it was meant to air before the wedding.
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Post by greenguy on Apr 13, 2005 13:18:29 GMT -5
What I don't understand though, is how did they have the money to so greatly improve the flying effects then? In one way, it does appear that the 3rd season was shot more down and dirty when you look at what was missing compared to the other two. But when I look at the vastly improved flying effects, the 3rd season doesn't look all that cheap. -scenario I can't be sure, but I think ABC slashed their licensing fee after production of the 3rd season started. The new flying FX were shot before the reduction of the fee. That would explain why some of the early produced episodes look to have a greater production value. Now I'm talking early episodes in the order they were produced, not the order that they aired. I hardly think that Cannell would have put up the cash to shoot the flying that cost more, with a newer technique, if ABC slashed their cash at the get go. If that would have happened, I think we would have seen the same recycled footage, along with new material once again shot on the Magicam stage. It cost 75,000 just to set up a shoot on magicam's blue screen stage. Using the Zoptic system the costs were supposed to be higher. Not to mention the extra cost it took to have Katt's 4 steel ribbed body molds made for the new flying. That was about another 6,000, on top of the opticals cost.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Apr 13, 2005 14:23:34 GMT -5
I read that Cannell had originally thought the Zoptic system was going to cost more than he could afford, but that the prices for the system overall had come down to the point where they were able to move to it without spending all that much more money, or maybe it was that they were able to save money in other areas to make up for it. I think that was in American Cinematographer? I have the issue at home somewhere.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Apr 13, 2005 14:25:36 GMT -5
Also, my point with the lack of rings in the Carlini episode was... shouldn't Pamela have had an ring on anyway if they were just engaged? I don't think I remember seeing one on her. Ah, who cares. I hate that episode anyway. MUWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
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Post by culpkatt on Mar 21, 2008 0:09:24 GMT -5
2. What do YOU think were the major factors in the decline of 3rd season? Two major factors contributed to the quality of the 3rd season scripts. As was already stated Cannell was in a major battle with ABC over the series. It was even suggested to him that he not write for his own show. 2nd, in the 3rd season ABC slashed their licensing fee they paid for the series. When that happened, Cannell Productions had to absorb more of the cost for the production of each episode. That's why some things are missing, such as the kids not appearing in as many episodes, and hardly no original music from Stephen Geyer. That also caused the scripts to be less complicted, requiring more set ups, etc. In a nutshell the 3rd season was shot alot more down and dirty than the previous 2 seasons. Is this why the season three episodes look a bit different than the two previous seasons in terms of the lensing and picture quality? I've noticed the third season doesn't look as clean and sharp as seasons one and two did.
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Post by mmderdekea on Mar 21, 2008 23:35:07 GMT -5
Why did ABC slash its licensing fees? Was that just with TGAH or many shows it was airing?
Mona
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Post by MelMac on Mar 21, 2008 23:41:25 GMT -5
Why did ABC slash its licensing fees? Was that just with TGAH or many shows it was airing? Mona This might/might not answer your question, so apologies if it doesn't. It might be the whole DC comics issue as far as items such as toys and clothes and such. Now, the actual releases of episodes I have no idea. Of course, reading anything with licensing and such makes me think about the grief DC Comics gave Cannell's group on the concept of Ralph. DC was wrong about Ralph and Superman being the same idea - Green Lantern maybe, but even there they're not the same. Even the original one -which is white - had differences that are clearly not the same as Ralph. GL has a magic ring given by the aliens, not a red suit, and his background is different by far. And, though this is a different day and age, this question would possibly be pressing back then. My question would be why bother with Ralph for a lawsuit instead of all these ridiculous fetish movies I've noticed on YouTube that use both the Superman and Wonder Woman characters? They wear the same costumes (even girls wear a Supergirl costume - same issue), and they're definitely copyright violations, as some cases the uploader says "Download now/buy the DVD."
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Post by mmderdekea on Mar 22, 2008 9:34:32 GMT -5
You're right Mel, your reply had nothing to do with my question!
Mona
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