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Post by mom2jared on Apr 1, 2005 21:11:05 GMT -5
I just finished watching this episode and something is totally confusing me. Ralph introduced Pam to O'Neil as his fiance. I thought they were only dating at this point and not engaged. They didn't get engaged until the episode "This is the One the Suit was Meant For". Am I right or am I missing the boat again?
Ilana
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Post by The J-Man on Apr 2, 2005 21:50:47 GMT -5
If you think that's confusing, rewatch "TitOtSwMF". Ralph refers to Pam as his fiance early in that episode (with the girl coming on to him in his hotel room) even though he doesn't propose to her until the very last scene.
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Post by MiltonMaxwell on Aug 30, 2005 16:59:47 GMT -5
Well, actually they had "talked" marriage in the Pilot and in Train of Thought and a couple of other episodes, so it was a longstanding "maybe."
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Post by The J-Man on Aug 30, 2005 21:06:35 GMT -5
Ralph definitlely refers to Pam as his fiancee in "Lilacs", which I found very confusing.
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GAH Geek
Agent
The Lurking GAH Addict
Posts: 347
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Post by GAH Geek on Sept 2, 2005 0:30:57 GMT -5
If you think that's confusing, rewatch "TitOtSwMF". Ralph refers to Pam as his fiance early in that episode (with the girl coming on to him in his hotel room) even though he doesn't propose to her until the very last scene. I Don't remember the episode but My guess is The reason He said that to the girl was so that the girl would get the hint that he was Taken. That's just my guess though? i havent gotten season 2 on DVD yet I only have season 1. Wish i had season 2 but I'm extremely tight for money right now. |
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Post by billswoman on Sept 2, 2005 5:15:39 GMT -5
"the girl" was in her early to mid 40's, and was only interested in Bill. Initially, to get in with him to learn his secret to a 98 per cent kill rate, but then she ended up falling in love with him, as he did with her, even though he knew she was on the wrong side. "The kicker is I fell for it. I never wanted this, not since my wife." (I'm paraphrasing, btw, but that's close.) I believe it's the only time in the whole series Bill mentions a wife.
My question from this ep is: Why did Ralph dislike O'Neil so much, any way? What did she do that made him not like her? They imply at least a couple weeks goes by, before the scene in the restaurant when the fiancee introduction is made.
Then a bit later, when he's trying to holograph in on her and Bill, he says, "I don't like you, but come in any way" when he's gazing into her mirror.
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Post by MiltonMaxwell on Sept 2, 2005 7:26:53 GMT -5
Maybe Ralph is being overprotective like a father. After all, if your son showed up with a girl he hardly knew and wanted to tell her all about the suit, would you like her?
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 8, 2005 16:07:53 GMT -5
I actually understand Ralph's dilemma about referring to Pam in different ways. After dating someone for a while...in this case, easily a couple of years, then you get sick of everyone asking you if and when you are going to propose, so you start saying things like fiancee to take the heat off.  |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 21, 2006 17:58:11 GMT -5
This episode makes you wonder what happened to O'Neil. Either Bill is quite the playboy or he DID testify against her and sent her away...even though they were both in love. Leads to a lot of great missing scenes doesn't it, MelMac? Also, IS Bill a playboy? From Ralph's mom to this lady to no one after. Maybe Ralph is mad at O'Neil because she took HIS mom's spot with Bill. (Yes, I know it was written for earlier in the season, but you think there might have been some resolution with BOTH women). |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 21, 2006 18:15:57 GMT -5
I love a lot of this episode...and I have always remembered that opening scene, especially the part in the room where all of the unsolved cases were. I love that scene still...it is well-written and delivered by Katt and Culp, probably because they understand the characters best when portraying them. Loved Ralph's Igor impression too. I am curious as to how Bill got Ralph the badge. In FIREMAN, he had to introduce him as his nephew because otherwise he would have needed ID. Even then, someone could have sneaked up on them since they left the door open to the history room where they were holographing.  Why only everything west of the Mississippi though? I still have never understood why Ralph saved the dog over Bill. He told Bill to wreck the car rather than STOP THE DAMNED THING. That seems over done to me. Although you have to like the new suit power of telepathy with animals...and the power of persuasion to them. I wonder why the head honchos are just NOW putting his file under a red flag...98% is hard to keep you know. I find it funny that Bill did not object when Carlisle was playing up to him...although Carlisle ducked out fast when the head FBI guy said how much he didn't care for Bill. Always made me wonder if he was a bad guy too. Do they keep the dog I wonder? During the play of the interview, you see Ralph change into the suit and it is there, but never again...and I wonder what happened to it. Speaking of interviews, I am surprised they let him go on the air. Most agencies have spokespeople for something THAT important. I love the scene outside Bill's...BOY does he get flustered around women that he likes. Although I have to wonder what Ralph did to the two guys he landed on...it seemed like Bill got credit for those too. I love the scene in the sandbox too. Bill is being all cavalier while digging up the guns, telling the goons to ask inside. Then, he tests O'Neil by telling her to shoot them and then REMINDING her that the gun is in her purse. Subtle, but a good test. As a teacher of communication, I have to love the scene at O'Neil's when Ralph and Bill are communicating via hand signals and other nonverbals to find and destroy the bugs...classic. I do have to wonder again how Ralph was not seen flying around...since he became visible. You think SOMEONE, including O'Neil would have seen it. Plus, she KNOWS Ralph and Bill are friends and such. It was not well-crafted to me. Nor, is O'Neil. Was her whole purpose to get Bill? So she has only been over here for a couple of years then, but Bill says that she has been here a lot longer. Was she an agent or was she a turned agent? Great episode, but needs to be fleshed out better...most Culp scripts seem that they would work best as two-parters. |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 21, 2006 18:21:28 GMT -5
Also, I know that O'Neil is relieved that Bill cares for her, as evidenced when he slaps her, but she seems to go somewhat mad when he tells her that she is compromised...it is an odd scene to watch. I found it odd that Bill surprised Ralph and Pam twice: Once with the engagement mix-up, although that was hilarious. The second was at the end when he claimed that he didn't know why he had to testify...they seemed to think that was against his moral and ethical code as an FBI guy. It was another team moment where you learn something about all of them. I also wonder if this is why we never see O'Neil again...so that people would not think Bill is crooked. |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 21, 2006 18:30:30 GMT -5
One other odd notation: We know that Bill usually calls women "dames." In THE BEAST IN THE BLACK, we learn that he does not say "chick." Yet, in this episode, he does say "Babe." Does he not call anyone by their name? |
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Post by jopierce on Jul 21, 2006 21:13:59 GMT -5
Well, HD, over in the Culpalicious fan forum I have made several dozen or so comments about this episode - which range from why I hate it, to why it is great. On the whole, I dislike it, but maybe because I think that O'Neil was just a horrible, horrible character. I am also never convinced that she cares about him, which not only makes her a horrible character, but also #1 on my hit list.
He may be her boyfriend, but he's my Agent, and nobody messes with him!!
As far as what happens to her, I find Billswoman's fanfic option (witness protection program) to be a really great explanation, although not how I would have written it. My plot bunny - yet to be written - has her jumping bail, going back to Moscow, or winding up face down in a river somewhere, even before the trial starts. Either is fine by me. That way, we never quite know what his decision would have been.
As far as his other ladies, remember that little sexual tension between Bill and Rhonda's mom? Who can blame her for taking a couple of double takes at the man... And he also had that blind date with Dotty, although the too were two stubborn for each other. Never would have worked. Mrs. Hinkley and he would probably never hit it off, anyway. My plot bunny sees her as wanting to go out dancing everynight, and he just couldn't handle the music. Made his eyes water...
I also picture his wife (who is only mentioned once, and in this episode) as having walked out on him. Lends more to the tragic character that is Bill Maxwell. I think she left him for a used car salesman in Vegas named Harold.
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Post by MST3Claye on Jul 21, 2006 21:41:26 GMT -5
One other odd notation: We know that Bill usually calls women "dames." In THE BEAST IN THE BLACK, we learn that he does not say "chick." Yet, in this episode, he does say "Babe." Does he not call anyone by their name? Yeah, their LAST name.. Davidson, Carlisle, Villicana, Rodriguez. Hmm, so he's only referred to Ralph in first name basis? Him and Harlan, possibly his late-partner? |
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Post by MelMac on Jul 21, 2006 23:08:11 GMT -5
This episode makes you wonder what happened to O'Neil. Either Bill is quite the playboy or he DID testify against her and sent her away...even though they were both in love. Leads to a lot of great missing scenes doesn't it, MelMac? Also, IS Bill a playboy? From Ralph's mom to this lady to no one after. Maybe Ralph is mad at O'Neil because she took HIS mom's spot with Bill. (Yes, I know it was written for earlier in the season, but you think there might have been some resolution with BOTH women). Nope, that's one I'm not going to write, as billswoman is doing her Lilacs series on that very bit: What happened to O'Neil. I'm going to look for another one though... but it'll be a while until I start writing any of them. I don't see Bill as much a playboy as someone who hasn't really settled in as far as a true love. You can tell he misses his wife, and still has trouble finding that same love. That's just my opinion. |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 24, 2006 11:34:14 GMT -5
I wonder what Culp would have done with the O'Neil character if given the chance. Maybe he had other script ideas that brought her back even momentarily. But how would HE say that she was logically gone from his life?
Personally, I think Bill probably realized that he had to testify against her...and did...and she is in jail. Maybe he visits her like he visits Harlan.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Jul 24, 2006 12:09:32 GMT -5
I remember being aggravated that they didn't continue her character in to the next season, but I guess that's a silly view to take, seeing as the episodes should have aired toward the MIDDLE of season 2 and not at the very end - I guess meaning they had no intention of continuing her character in the first place. Too bad...
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 24, 2006 14:01:06 GMT -5
That is what made me wonder what Culp had originally done with her character or what he would have liked to have seen happen...especially with the move to the end of the second season. That would have been a neat episode commentary. |
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Post by jopierce on Jul 24, 2006 19:16:59 GMT -5
I wonder what Culp would have done with the O'Neil character if given the chance. Maybe he had other script ideas that brought her back even momentarily. But how would HE say that she was logically gone from his life? Personally, I think Bill probably realized that he had to testify against her...and did...and she is in jail. Maybe he visits her like he visits Harlan.
Of couse we all know what the REAL scenario was... I tracked her down in an alley, kicked her bottom, and sent her packing... It had nothing to do with ideology, geopolitics, or anything like that. I just don't like her with my man...
But if I hadn't been there to prove myself to my main squeeze, I still think she'd skip bail.
Otherwise, he would have testified against her in the end. I can see lots of nights awake on the murphy bed, staring into the ceiling fan. Classic GAH Noir... Bill Maxwell, the King of Angst.
I mean, he didn't take one in the lung in Korea fightin the commies just to come back home and let one go, did he?
He realized all the set ups, double crosses, etc that she was responsible for. He'd of had them throw the book at her.
He couldn't trust her. He knew he couldn't trust her. She knew he couldn't either. It just wasn't gonna happen, despite all the angst in the world. And knowing he couldn't trust her, I am convinced she would have skipped bail.
*sigh and angst*
And now.. a few choruses of my favorite Warren Zevon song is in order...
***
Lawyers, Guns and Money
Well, I went home with the waitress
The way I always do.
How was I to know
She was with the Russians, too?
I was gambling in Havana
I took a little risk
Send lawyers, guns and money
Dad, get me out of this!
I'm the innocent bystander
Somehow I got stuck
Between the rock and the hard place
And I'm down on my luck
Now I'm hiding in Honduras
I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns and money
The sh*t has hit the fan |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 24, 2006 21:02:48 GMT -5
Well, at least he F*cked her and with her first. |
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Why only everything west of the Mississippi though?
"FOUR?!"
