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Post by jopierce on Mar 8, 2007 19:48:32 GMT -5
I agree, except that I do think that he was made more cartoonish overall.
Compare Bill in Hit Car to Bill in Carlini with the pirate costume one... not that I don't LOVE the pirate look, but I cannot see Bill in that outfit in season one. Not even if someone's life depended on it....
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Post by helane4bill on Mar 8, 2007 21:56:20 GMT -5
Bill does become more of a comedy as the show progresses, which was fine by me. I just love his quirks. Eating the dog biscuits, hating tomatoes, eating dirty hot dogs from the floor, getting ga ga over Cobb, etc...etc.....
Its Bill's endless sense of humor that Culp thought was the characters best trait. He said that "the humor in this guy is endless"........which explains why he said he would never have grown tired of playing him. If Bill had been kept just a tough as nails FBI macho man with no humor, it just wouldn't have been the same in my opinion.
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Post by helane4bill on Mar 8, 2007 22:04:37 GMT -5
Gee, I just had a new idea........
I love GAH Match Game, so maybe Bill could have his own game show:
Scenario: GAH Dating Game?
Contestants who have purple hair, orthopedic shoes or like tomatoes need not apply.
Bill would have 3 lovely ladies to choose from and he can ask them questions to see who is best for him.
Sample: Bill: "What is your favorite gun and what would you do with it?"
Bachlorette #1: ?
I'm not too original, so maybe some others have ideas....
Also if the show is a hit and Bill marries the girl, they could go on the GAH Newlywed Game.
Bob Eubanks: "Where is the weirdest place you ever made whoppee?"
Bill: "Carlisle's office"
Oh well, I tried. I'm not too funny....anyone else?
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Post by jopierce on Mar 8, 2007 22:29:48 GMT -5
Good points, Helane! I agree with the comedy aspects, 110%! He has a great sense of humor, and he has some of the funniest lines in tv history, as far as I am concerned. (I even catch my very own Mr. Noir using Maxwellisms now and then...)
But I think there is a difference between being funny with a good sense of humor, doing quirky things, and having a softer side, versus being the butt of jokes, represented as an oddity, and being softer.
I think it's not just Bill that suffers from these things. The whole series, as it went from the season one classics like the pilot, Heros, and Hit Car to becoming more of the kiddie show. There are later examples when that is certainly NOT the case (O:SS, Lilacs, DVS), but its the more cartoonesque -maybe slapstick?- quality of the later shows that I am thinking of.
Lilacs, for example, is a GREAT example of a good later season Bill show. (Yes, BW, you heard me right...) He has vulnerabilities (when he is worried that he made a fool of himself on tv), he is funny (Ask inside!!!), and has a softer side (Gardenias???). But he is never once presented in the way that Bill in The Price is Right was presented. Vulnerable meant burning a hole in his suit. Soft was stammering in front of Cobb. Funny was the Pimp Mobile. Now, I love the pimp mobile... but it's more slapstick than telling Comrade Yuri and Comrade Chuck to ask inside...
Don't get me wrong. I love the Bill. I AM THE HIGH PRIESTESS, don't you know... I just wonder how much of the transformation is Culp, how much is the writers, and how much is the direction of the show.
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Post by jopierce on Mar 8, 2007 22:33:12 GMT -5
Scenario: GAH Dating Game? Sample: Bill: "What is your favorite gun and what would you do with it?" Bachlorette #1: ? Jo: Oh, I wouldn't carry a gun, Bill!! Girls don't carry guns... That's for a big, strong man!! You'll protect me, won't you Bill?
I win.
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Post by MelMac on Mar 8, 2007 23:10:46 GMT -5
Well, I still think Bill's last phone line in Sat Night was wonderful, and showed him to be a decent man with the normal concerns for what others think, and a need to maintain a sense of strength, while sharing his vulnerability with Ralph. It's a great moment. It makes him human. We all know he has some feelings of insecurity so for anyone who enjoys/likes the character of Bill, this is a touching moment. I feel lucky they added it into the story. It really is one of the best things about the episode. Bill is endearing as a result and I think Ralph is closer to him for it. All around, a win-win story line, and Culp's eye-rolling is magnificent. Jo is right that it does also help us see how Bill can not have to do the lie detector tests in the future. Mona I like the character too, but I will say that I have a differentiating opinion about why he does this in the episode. (but we all have diffentiating opinions about characters and other characters.) We all grandstand at some point, so that too makes the character endearing.
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Post by helane4bill on Mar 8, 2007 23:15:05 GMT -5
LOL....you would win on the GAH dating game....so original!!
As for Bill, I agree with you that he did become more of a buffoon as the series progressed. I think it was the writers. That is why it was so hard for me to like "Vanity". Culp wrote it and he wrote it with Bill being serious more than not. I was not used to that. I wanted the comedy back, but that is not how Culp writes.
So, I think its part the writing and part that the writers decided to take the direction of the show that way.
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Post by jopierce on Mar 8, 2007 23:47:41 GMT -5
LOL....you would win on the GAH dating game....so original!! Uh, maybe. But you see Bill's face here... the second from the right.... you see that look? You see?
That would be his expression when I walked out from behind the screen....
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Post by jopierce on Mar 9, 2007 0:15:53 GMT -5
The GAH Dating Game
Bill: Ok, another question for Bachelorette #1. If you and I were going on a stake out, what would be the three things you would bring?
Jo: Hmmmm.... A set of binoculars, you know, for peeking out the windows, seeing where the bad guys were at all times.
Bill: Atta girl!! What else....?
Jo: Hmmmmm... well, maybe a few rolls of quarters, for feeding the candy machine.... the soda machines....
Bill: Good thinking... !!
Jo: ....and the magic fingers bed....
Bill: **raised eyebrows** Ok... and the last thing?
Jo: The phone number of a drug store that makes all night deliveries...
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Post by helane4bill on Mar 9, 2007 6:20:52 GMT -5
Thank you, Jo. I love a good laugh first thing in the morning ;D
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Post by jopierce on Mar 9, 2007 7:13:07 GMT -5
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Post by jopierce on Mar 9, 2007 7:19:43 GMT -5
That is why it was so hard for me to like "Vanity". Culp wrote it and he wrote it with Bill being serious more than not. I was not used to that. I wanted the comedy back, but that is not how Culp writes. I actually liked Vanity for that very same reason. Granted, I would have made it a 2 hour special, or gotten rid of some of the extra story lines that cluttered it up so much. (The Caballo Rojo? And really, that whole Sleeper thing introduced way too much for such a short little episode...)
Now, it wasn't an O:SS or a DVS or a Hit Car... But it was better than something like Desperado. Sheeeesh!!
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Post by jopierce on Mar 9, 2007 7:31:56 GMT -5
Another late night dedication to Bill... Lawyers, Guns And Money Warren Zevon
I went home with the waitress Just like I always do How was I to know She was with the Russians, too.
I was gambling in Havana I took a little risk. Send lawyers, guns and money Dad, get me out of this.
I'm the innocent bystander Somehow I got stuck Between a rock and a hard place And I'm down on my luck.
Now I'm hiding in Honduras I'm a desperate man. Send lawyers, guns and money The sh*t has hit the fan.
[/center] [/size][/tt]
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Post by mmderdekea on Mar 9, 2007 15:50:00 GMT -5
Hello, all,
I agree with HD about the "celebrity" thing, the tendency for folks to freeze upon meeting celebrities, athletes, etc, whomever is meaningful to them. However, I think a really important thing is to see how quickly it all vanishes when Bill sees Price with criminals after their meeting. The awkward gawkiness disappears IMMEDIATELY seeing Price discussing something with known felons. That was a cool turnaround, and enables us to see how clearly Bill thinks when it comes to crime and criminals. After that, he doesn't do any gawky staring at Price; he's back to being his own tough Fed, finding out what's going on.
Also, I agree that I didn't really like Bill's standing there like an idiot, not even being able to speak, when Price first approached. He didn't act that way with the baseball players in "200 mph fastball". It did make him look a bit foolish. I think, perhaps, it may be that Bill was internalizing Price, and for a moment or two thinking that he himself may have been a football star, as he was apparently excellent at football in High School. He even mentions he had thought of going on professionally, "until I blew out my knee." I don't know how "blown" his knee was since he very soon wound up humping it around North Korea and doesn't seem to have any knee problems in middle age.
I also LOVE the moment in this episode when the house-keeper finds Ralph in Mrs. Cobb's nightie. "It doesn't look good, Ralph" is one of Bill's most hilarious whispered understatements, as he sympathetically removes the gown from Ralph. Great funny scene!
I have never met Robert Culp (fear of jail-time as a result), but I have met Patrick Macnee from The Avengers several times. And, what I do when that happens is pretty much what Bill did upon first meeting Price Cobb.
Mona
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Post by MyTatuo on Mar 9, 2007 16:37:40 GMT -5
I think a funny goof would be to do a fake Dating Game with Jo & BW as bachlorettes (and one more volunteer? Mona? Helane?), perhaps with "Maxwell-FBI" (Frank) feeding them questions. We could set it up as a poll to see who deserves the win on each answer (not as a match for Bill overall). Might finally answer the question of who is Wild Bill's favorite... Of course, there might end up being some hurt feelings, even though it's just a goof. If the contestants can laugh about it afterwards, and continue to say "I don't care what the results were, I'm the one for Bill " then I say we try it. I'll be happy to MC. Maxwell-FBI: Bachelorette number one, "Happiness is a warm BLANK"? MC Tatuo: Wrong game, bachelor Bill.
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Post by MelMac on Mar 9, 2007 16:50:20 GMT -5
Hello, all, I agree with HD about the "celebrity" thing, the tendency for folks to freeze upon meeting celebrities, athletes, etc, whomever is meaningful to them. However, I think a really important thing is to see how quickly it all vanishes when Bill sees Price with criminals after their meeting. The awkward gawkiness disappears IMMEDIATELY seeing Price discussing something with known felons. That was a cool turnaround, and enables us to see how clearly Bill thinks when it comes to crime and criminals. After that, he doesn't do any gawky staring at Price; he's back to being his own tough Fed, finding out what's going on. Also, I agree that I didn't really like Bill's standing there like an idiot, not even being able to speak, when Price first approached. He didn't act that way with the baseball players in "200 mph fastball". It did make him look a bit foolish. I think, perhaps, it may be that Bill was internalizing Price, and for a moment or two thinking that he himself may have been a football star, as he was apparently excellent at football in High School. He even mentions he had thought of going on professionally, "until I blew out my knee." I don't know how "blown" his knee was since he very soon wound up humping it around North Korea and doesn't seem to have any knee problems in middle age. I also LOVE the moment in this episode when the house-keeper finds Ralph in Mrs. Cobb's nightie. "It doesn't look good, Ralph" is one of Bill's most hilarious whispered understatements, as he sympathetically removes the gown from Ralph. Great funny scene! I have never met Robert Culp (fear of jail-time as a result), but I have met Patrick Macnee from The Avengers several times. And, what I do when that happens is pretty much what Bill did upon first meeting Price Cobb. Mona There's a slight flaw about Bill's reaction to the baseball players though. He wasn't interested in baseball, only getting Ralph on the team to bust these guys who were beating up the players. I didn't see any interest in the sport save training Ralph to be a pitcher. His turnaround also was faster probably because he had been burned before by his heroes, as in "My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys." It does show a good bit of continutity with the character though, in that they remember he has been victim to his hero's evil doings before (in this case they fell of their pedastal.) As far as the knee, maybe something else happened (a concussion, a fellow football player seriously injured/dying tragically in a game) that brings back painful memories with him and playing football that he says he busted his knee. Doesn't mean he didn't forget the fun times he played in high school, but just decided instead to not play again out of those memories/ respect. And, as far as funny outfits a la Ralph in the nightie, it was a nice turn around after the Madras incident in "Don't Mess Around with Jim." Here Bill buys that jacket, thinking it'd make him fit in (stand out like a sore thumb unfortunately), and Ralph kids him about the outfit (Ralph: "why does it still have the price tag on it?" when Bill says he's worn it all the time). Also, though it was a fashion for the time (probably because of Dallas or some other show), I've never liked me wearing bolo ties. It just doesn't look right on them, even Bill. I will say though, I like the madras jacket itself, but I also have in real life a jacket decorated with neckties. But Bill did drop the ball on dressing incognito for Las Vegas at the time, even now. Most people I've seen on TV at least, wear a nice shirt, possibly tie, and slacks. Some gussie up and a few dress in odd outfits. Ralph was in better disguise than Bill that time.
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Post by helane4bill on Mar 9, 2007 18:52:43 GMT -5
I think a funny goof would be to do a fake Dating Game with Jo & BW as bachlorettes (and one more volunteer? Mona? Helane?), perhaps with "Maxwell-FBI" (Frank) feeding them questions. We could set it up as a poll to see who deserves the win on each answer (not as a match for Bill overall). Might finally answer the question of who is Wild Bill's favorite... Of course, there might end up being some hurt feelings, even though it's just a goof. If the contestants can laugh about it afterwards, and continue to say "I don't care what the results were, I'm the one for Bill " then I say we try it. I'll be happy to MC. Maxwell-FBI: Bachelorette number one, "Happiness is a warm BLANK"? MC Tatuo: Wrong game, bachelor Bill. I will play......I will play
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Post by mmderdekea on Mar 9, 2007 20:45:23 GMT -5
I'll play the Bill Match Game, too!
Bill: Bachelorette #1--How thick do you grill your burgers?
B #1: Oh, an inch or so thick.
Bill: Excellent!
B #1: Smothered heavily with tomatoe-y barbecue sauce.
Bill: Next! Bachelorette #2--What brand of sunglasses do you wear?
B #2: I don't wear sunglasses, but I do like wearing pink bandanas.
Bill: Next! Bachelorette #3--Do you like the smell of gardenias?
B #3: Nah, I like the smell of fish coming fresh from the lake.
Bill: Will you marry me?
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Post by mmderdekea on Mar 9, 2007 21:22:36 GMT -5
Hello all,
Regarding "200 mph" episode and "30 Seconds", we see Bill being an avid baseball fan, totally in love with the sport. So, his not having any gawkiness when he was at the stadium was very different from his meeting with Price Cobb. He even knew about the Baseball sports bar at the end of "200 mph", so we know baseball is a huge interest in his.
I agree that the Cobb episode did indeed show Bill being more comedic than we'd like. I can like that his suit was burnt, but not that he kept wearing it. The staring at Cobb makes me grimace and the Pimp Mobile was embarrassingly ridiculous.
However, I can't quite see that Bill got more and more comedic as the season progressed. Looking at the episode order as listed on the DVDs, succeeding shows never had Bill near as silly as in parts of "Price is Right". And in several of them, such as Desperado, Newlywed Game, Carlini, DVS, etc., I think he was presented exceedingly well all throughout the episode.
Mona
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Post by MelMac on Mar 9, 2007 22:50:18 GMT -5
Hello all, Regarding "200 mph" episode and "30 Seconds", we see Bill being an avid baseball fan, totally in love with the sport. So, his not having any gawkiness when he was at the stadium was very different from his meeting with Price Cobb. He even knew about the Baseball sports bar at the end of "200 mph", so we know baseball is a huge interest in his. I agree that the Cobb episode did indeed show Bill being more comedic than we'd like. I can like that his suit was burnt, but not that he kept wearing it. The staring at Cobb makes me grimace and the Pimp Mobile was embarrassingly ridiculous. However, I can't quite see that Bill got more and more comedic as the season progressed. Looking at the episode order as listed on the DVDs, succeeding shows never had Bill near as silly as in parts of "Price is Right". And in several of them, such as Desperado, Newlywed Game, Carlini, DVS, etc., I think he was presented exceedingly well all throughout the episode. Mona Apparently I should've clarified. At the moment, he didn't care about baseball or the game/players, only that Ralph bust the bad guys. And, learning this from watching one too many baseball games (and not just the Astros there HD), people can have trivia in their heads and not like the game. People who don't even watch the sport know players such as Nolan Ryan, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, and the like. (And, in order, basic things each are known for: Ryan pitched for the Angels, Rangers and Astros (where I saw him play), Jackson for the Black Sox scandal (rigging the World Series), Babe Ruth for his home run record, Bonds for the steriod scandal that does tarnish his current attempt to beat Hank Aaron's home run record.) I'm not saying Bill doesn't like the sport, only that it can't be automatically assumed that he loves the game based on trivia knowledge and knowing where a sports bar is... or even the fact he is practicing with Ralph at the beginning. Every town I've been in I can tell you where the nearest bar is (and some cases if it's a dry county) and its name... and I don't drink. What I am saying his blase attitude toward the baseball players versus Cobb in this case was the baseball game he was on assignment, so he had his head in the game. Cobb at the moment of Bill's hemming and hawing was where Ralph was introducing an old classmate to him... strictly for fun. Bill was comedic (all three were), but stuff like still wearing his suit after it's burnt isn't unknown to the character. He wears a torn suit all the way through "Train of Thought." Even with Ralph's amnesia, he could've taken the time to switch out the jacket or borrow one of Ralph's that he's had to take from Lost and Found (some would fit Bill). It was the humor in that ep, and it showed in this ep as well. And, compared to the first two seasons, Bill was a bit more of the comic role in the last season. He makes more goofs and blunders than he used to do, he still is "EEP!" whenever Ralph turns invisible, he still eats dog biscuits (which I admit is endearing to the character), he overexaggerates his expressions to hint to Ralph to use the mind push in "Live at Eleven" to make the officer dismiss the ticket instead of a subtle pleading "Please help me out here." Then again... all three fell victim to this somehow throughout that season.
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