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Post by greenguy on Dec 1, 2022 9:25:30 GMT -5
It's come to my attention that another fake GAH costume has reared it's ugly head on Ebay. This is one from the batch of fakes produced (along with fake Reeve Superman suits) by an individual around 20 years ago out of Florida. The easiest way to
pick out these suits are the incorrect insignia. Not only is the design slightly off, it's not constructed in the same way as the originals and not made from the same material. Too many things are not accurate to list, but the three biggest things to look for are: Incorrect type of stitching used for the red thread within the insignia. Gray felt is used as the base that the insignia is stitched on instead of the correct type of gray material. The top slant on the left and right of the inside open book is slanted up too far. Here's a look at a fake insignia from my own collection. I attempted to enhance a close up view of the auction insignia. Even though the software smeared it a bit, you can tell it's the exact same design
 Here's the auction link. I don't care what kind of COA comes with this, it's not a real production used suit. The fakes were put together by what seems to be an expert seamstress, so knock off $22,300 of the price and you will have a good buy for what it is. www.ebay.com/itm/144834414695?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180816085401%26meid%3D136fa1cbc096436e8b52fdb29e5f4588%26pid%3D100970%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D144834414695%26itm%3D144834414695%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100970.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3A4dd01ecc-7184-11ed-8135-0a2bea03789a%7Cparentrq%3Ace15f8ca1840a49984cf9753fffdfcfa%7Ciid%3A1Several suits have changed hands over the years, and I believe that some current owners are not aware. The seller is also way out of the park with $23,000. If this was an original suit complete with belt, buckle, and shoes it would fetch 7 or 8 grand on a good day. I could understand a little more if it was one of the suits from the pilot. I love the series, but realistically there is no real demand for TGAH items except from the die hard fans. I have a better chance of aliens giving me a super powered costume than this seller has of getting 23K out of a fake one, or even if it was a real production used piece. |
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 2, 2022 7:55:42 GMT -5
I was going to message you about this! Lol thank you for your supreme insight as always. I was very interested in this suit and was hoping to deal with the guy but thanks to you I won’t!
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Post by greenguy on Dec 2, 2022 20:11:10 GMT -5
You’re welcome Johnny. I don’t want to see any GAH fans separated from their hard earned cash on a fake. Currently I know of 3 legit suits, they are all in private collections. They are not for sale, and not on public display. I’ve never been able to accurately track how many fakes were produced. My best guess from talking to the individuals that were scammed years ago that at least 6 are out there. All have the same insignia on the tunic that I’m holding in the photo. The boot spats are always the 3rd season style. They are very well made, but not produced using the same fabric as the production used costumes.
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 2, 2022 20:14:40 GMT -5
Interesting what about the one on display at the hall of heroes museum in IN? Is that one real?
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Post by greenguy on Dec 2, 2022 20:23:31 GMT -5
Interesting what about the one on display at the hall of heroes museum in IN? Is that one real? FAKE. From the same batch produced out of Florida years ago. |
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 2, 2022 20:41:40 GMT -5
Wow! Really? That’s terrible I wonder if they know
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Post by greenguy on Dec 2, 2022 20:49:51 GMT -5
Wow! Really? That’s terrible I wonder if they know I don’t know. I’ve seen multiple videos of the owner stating it’s the only costume remaining from the series. Pretty bold statement, especially when it’s fake. Could be the guy was taken by a private seller or auction house and actually believes that. Or he knows, but likes to talk big. One of these days I’ll drive over to see it so I can document it with my own photos. The Hall of Heroes suit and the one on eBay are just like this one.  Again, you can see it’s the same insignia.  |
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 2, 2022 20:54:50 GMT -5
I’ve talked to him. I believe he won it in an auction. Pretty sure he thinks it real. I always wanted to take a pilgrimage down there to see it. What about the one that sold in 2019? You’ve got me all messed up everything I knew was wrong. I’m also very sad about the HOH one
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Post by greenguy on Dec 2, 2022 21:07:18 GMT -5
I’ve talked to him. I believe he won it in an auction. Pretty sure he thinks it real. I always wanted to take a pilgrimage down there to see it. What about the one that sold in 2019? You’ve got me all messed up everything I knew was wrong. I’m also very sad about the HOH one Here’s a photo of the Hall of Heroes suit. You can see it’s the same insignia. There’s a couple of other things to look for that I keep to myself only because I don’t want some enterprising individual (scam artist) to decide there’s a market for this and another batch of fakes would appear.  If 2019 you mean the Profiles in History auction that had a suit that sold for 5 grand. Another fake. No legit costumes have been sold in a public auction in years. |
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 2, 2022 21:12:26 GMT -5
You’re killing Me!!! Lol I am so sad now! (But thank you for the info! It is very appreciated it!)
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Post by greenguy on Dec 2, 2022 21:18:44 GMT -5
 Another shot of the Hall of Heroes insignia. Of course if it was legit the costume is ruined because the guy had Katt sign the tunic. No serious collectors that are out to preserve production used costumes have people sign them like this. Maybe he doesn’t know, in that case it sucks the guy was scammed. However, there were many before him. |
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 2, 2022 21:25:51 GMT -5
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Post by joe61478 on Dec 2, 2022 23:33:59 GMT -5
I may have missed this but how many suits were actually made for the show. At retrocon I think William Katt said 5. My question is are they all in private collections?
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Post by greenguy on Dec 3, 2022 1:54:20 GMT -5
That did not sell Johnny, and yes it’s real. As far as I know the owner still has the piece. He sold its twin (two were made for the 3rd season) a few years ago and I know the owner of the twin and have visited and held that piece in my hand. |
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Post by greenguy on Dec 3, 2022 2:50:16 GMT -5
I may have missed this but how many suits were actually made for the show. At retrocon I think William Katt said 5. My question is are they all in private collections? Welcome Joe. No one knows for sure, and of the many people I’ve spoke with involved in the production of the series none have been directly involved with costumes. I can tell you this. 5 is a number that’s way low. I spoke with the shop owner that constructed the suits for the pilot. She recalled making two complete costumes for the pilot alone, one for Katt & one for stuntman Dennis Madalone. It would be tough to determine how many total costumes because they would reuse pieces whenever possible. Insignias, belts, buckle, boot spats and shoes were sometimes transferred from one suit to another. Katt is already wearing a new tunic in The Hit Car, but it’s not clear on if the tights and boot spats are new or from the pilot. The pilot tunic appears in the same episode, but only worn under Ralph’s street clothes in the courthouse interior scene. I’ve often wondered if it’s use was discontinued because after 1st unit filming was completed for the pilot the tunic was ruined when a slit was cut into it for a belly mount for some of the blue screen work. See photo below.  Along with a different tunic for the first season hour long episodes there’s a different belt. I also believe the boot spats are a little different, but the pointy toe shoe boots still look the same. The tights could be the same pair as the pilot. They zipped in the back right up the butt crack area. Katt is wearing the tights backwards for My Heroes Have Been Cowboys when he stands up and says “Bill, I’ve got the rig on…” The zipper on the butt was eventually removed when a new pair was constructed and the tights zipped up on the left and right hips. Even after the insignia was altered in season 2 you could still catch Madalone (or whoever was in the suit for a shot) wearing the first season stunt tunic with original insignia. The 1982 TV Guide article says “Katt has at least 4 new ones and Dennis Madalone, his stunt double, another half dozen” I have no idea if that means 4 and 6 at any given time or if those numbers were the total number of costumes produced for that full season of 22 episodes. If so, I think that’s a reasonable number for 22 episodes. The final season ABC only ordered 13 episodes, the cast and crew knew going in that Dallas was going to cream them in the ratings. Extra dough was spent on the flying FX, but the production cut corners elsewhere. I don’t know if 4 and 6 costumes would have been produced at the start of filming or not. Add those numbers together for seasons 2 and 3 and that would be 8 for Katt and 12 for Madalone. Add in the fact I was told by the company that made the costumes for the pilot there was 1 for Katt and 1 for Madalone brings us to 9 for Katt and 13 for Madalone. Plus one must not forget the costume for Katt made exclusively for TGAHeroine pilot with the shiny side of the fabric on the outside instead of the inside and that brings us to 10 for Katt & 13 for Madalone. There had to have been a new tunic at least made for season one, but I’m not adding that because I suspect the tights he wore in season one are the same pair from the pilot. In my opinion the 10 and 13 count are in the ballpark for a series with a little over 40 episodes. Especially considering how rough they were on the costumes. I know that doesn’t answer your question Joe, but hopefully gives you a bit of insight on why I believe there were more than 5. Even if the production mixed and matched new costume pieces with used. |
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Post by joe61478 on Dec 3, 2022 7:28:06 GMT -5
Green guy,
I appreciate being a part of this thank you for allowing me to join! I’m impressed with your show knowledge! There’s so much more that I want to know!
Thank you for this response! You definitely answered this well and it was well thought out and I enjoyed reading his! I have so many questions about the show and don’t know where to begin! But this was great and your analysis makes complete sense. I had always wondered why they made Katt’s suit so different in Heroine. I kinda wish they kept it the same But it was just a brief shot. I would’ve liked to see him in the original looking suit for his last appearance. Even if we assume bare minimum number of suits (katt’s, Madalone, katt’s heroine suit) that’s already 3. You’re right…way too low for a 44 episode show when there are likely adjustments and regular wear and tear for usage. You make complete sense and it’s cool to know there’s more suits out there than we originally thought! Thanks for the quick response. Also thank you to Jonny Cisco for showing me that these boards exist!
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Post by greenguy on Dec 3, 2022 8:27:46 GMT -5
You’re welcome Joe.
Any questions you have I’ll do my best to answer. I’ve been collecting TGAH material since 1981, and started researching on the series in the late 90s and eventually started communicating with people involved with the production.
JohnnyCisco is a good guy, I’m happy I was able to warn him about the fake suit. It would have made me sick to my stomach if I had learned he bought a fake costume and I knew it was fake and not warned fellow GAH fans. The saga of the fake suits would go on for pages, and that’s just with the information I know. Thankfully the seller was pretty much stopped single handed by another TGAH/Superman fan that started documenting every sale and false costume online. The seller was too greedy and was faking Reeve Superman costumes along with Slater Supergirl, and the TV series Superboy suits. In some cases the individual would get ahold of real screen used pieces and produce the fakes based on that. Just a all around cancer in the world of production used costume collecting.
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 3, 2022 8:56:29 GMT -5
Thank you greenguy! That is a hell of an answer I love it! Lol 10 & 13! Wow. I still want one! Lol as for the communicator the one that was auctioned did sell on a second chance offer thing. I almost bought it but couldn’t get the money together at that point. But I have talked to the guy who did buy it so I’m pretty sure I know where it is.
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Post by greenguy on Dec 3, 2022 9:23:56 GMT -5
You're welcome Johnny! Now that's not written in stone, maybe it's 8 and 11, or 11 & 14, etc. I do think the numbers are around that ballpark though. Plus we have no idea how many of those actually survived, I'm positive some did not. No way do I think there are 23 production used suits out there somewhere. Like I said above I know of 3, plus I do know of some pieces that survived: couple of pairs of red shoes, some belt buckles, and at least one tunic without the tights. I would be shocked if more than 3 or 4 others exist. They might be out there stored away somewhere or in private hands of people that do not advertise their collections on the internet.
Sorry, I did not see the 2nd chance offer on that auction. I know the seller that put the communicator up, the last time I tried to buy it was probably 2018 maybe. I offered 2 grand, but he wanted more. That's totally his right to do so, even though I feel the piece isn't worth that. Rare yes, but in demand no. Please give my congrats to the buyer, it's a nice piece. I've held it's twin, and it's pretty cool to think that Katt and Culp held those.
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Post by johnnycisco on Dec 3, 2022 9:31:41 GMT -5
Lol I’m thinking about making him an offer after I get my Christmas tips lol
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