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Post by MortimerWest on Apr 21, 2009 2:50:33 GMT -5
I don't know, Mortimer. Bill and Ralph defended the planet on their own several times. There is always the chance that that is all the protecting the world needed. As I said, I prefer thinking it was only Bill and Ralph--I like them to be uniquely chosen by the GG. I don't WANT any other GG suit wearers, so they don't exist in my view of the TGAH Earthly "reality". I know others disagree. With no clear explanation one way or the other from the canon, it's another mindset free for all for everyone to enjoy on their own. That is, as I said before, the only benefit to the show ending too soon! Mona PS: I am SO glad Cosby did not show up as a suit wearer. I can't imagine that being a good thing. Cosby wasn't supposed to be the suit wearer - he was to play the partner (like Bill). And yes - it is our own choice how we view the show. Bill and Ralph never really defended the planet - they dealt with things in their area. The Alien was in California as was the missile. If these things had taken place elsewhere - who knows. |
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Post by greenguy on Apr 21, 2009 5:27:31 GMT -5
I don't know, Mortimer. Bill and Ralph defended the planet on their own several times. There is always the chance that that is all the protecting the world needed. As I said, I prefer thinking it was only Bill and Ralph--I like them to be uniquely chosen by the GG. I don't WANT any other GG suit wearers, so they don't exist in my view of the TGAH Earthly "reality". I know others disagree. With no clear explanation one way or the other from the canon, it's another mindset free for all for everyone to enjoy on their own. That is, as I said before, the only benefit to the show ending too soon! Mona PS: I am SO glad Cosby did not show up as a suit wearer. I can't imagine that being a good thing. Cosby wasn't supposed to be the suit wearer - he was to play the partner (like Bill). And yes - it is our own choice how we view the show. Bill and Ralph never really defended the planet - they dealt with things in their area. The Alien was in California as was the missile. If these things had taken place elsewhere - who knows. Mortimer is right. I have an interview with the producers at the time stating the ideas of The Greatest Russian Hero had been discussed, along with Cosby apearing as Bill's "opposite number" but they had no idea if they would go ahead with those thoughts...obviously they did not. |
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 21, 2009 8:43:18 GMT -5
To say Bill and Ralph never defended the planet is fallacious. Preventing nuclear attacks on Russia, which would have no doubt lead to them nuking us, is saving the planet. Preventing the President's plane from being shot down by a missile, which would have no doubt initiated some war response by our government is saving the planet. I don't see the point in down-playing the actions of Bill and Ralph simply because they lived in Southern California and were the only suit/partner team we know existed. We saw them moving around outside that locale for both those two scenarios, and others.
Well, I'm glad Cosby didn't show up in ANY way on the show.
Mona
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Post by MelMac on Apr 21, 2009 9:17:04 GMT -5
There were some cases true, but we do not know that had the Presidents helicopter being shot down would've been an international incident. All the attacks/assassinations on our presidents - save the infamous shoe one on Bush, have been domestic attacks. Plus, in the pilot, the reason for the attempt on the president's life was so that the Veep - who was handpicked by a shady group, could become president. All the attacks that lead to the president even coming to California were also locally done - Gabriel's Army and others. It's a lot like the LA riots were in its nature.
But, personally I do not see Mortimer's comments saying they didn't; IMHO I think he and others see them as reflecting the majority of the cases the duo did cover - local ones in California. There were a couple that could've had international repercussions if they went international, such as the nuclear warheads and to a point possibly small pox, but even there they were handled locally where they were stationed. That said, most of the cases we see really are local events - busting bad guys.
We didn't see them go to another country to solve a case - save the islands, but there a. the pirate case Bill was upset that he was there to begin with until he got the bust (not to mention gloat about it and again make fun of Ralph and Carrie - the reason he was there to begin with), and b. the voodoo case was stemmed from a sort of local tie - a friend of his who he worked with at one time.
I don't know why you're so harsh on Cosby though - sure he isn't perfect, but no actor is. Personally, I think Cosby would've been a fun touch to have in the show - he could've been the antithesis of Bill's character and it'd lead to some funny arguments between the two characters. It's one reason I do watch "I, Spy" occasionally - that banter was perfect.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 21, 2009 11:56:46 GMT -5
I don't think it would have been good for the show to have Cosby on it. It's that simple. I don't mind the man, but I don't think he would have been good on TGAH. If that is "harsh", so be it.
I find it odd that some fans of the show seem focused on down-playing the successful exploits of Bill and Ralph, and minimizing their actions, almost listing them as unimportant. For me, what Bill and Ralph did continually, both local and in terms of world saving importance is WONDERFUL. I am fans of THEM, not of the specious idea that the show would be better if instead there were multiple suit/partner teams all over the world. That's is simply not this fan's point of view, at all!
Mona
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Post by MelMac on Apr 21, 2009 12:55:55 GMT -5
I don't think it would have been good for the show to have Cosby on it. It's that simple. I don't mind the man, but I don't think he would have been good on TGAH. If that is "harsh", so be it. I find it odd that some fans of the show seem focused on down-playing the successful exploits of Bill and Ralph, and minimizing their actions, almost listing them as unimportant. For me, what Bill and Ralph did continually, both local and in terms of world saving importance is WONDERFUL. I am fans of THEM, not of the specious idea that the show would be better if instead there were multiple suit/partner teams all over the world. That's is simply not this fan's point of view, at all! Mona I respect your opinion on Cosby; however, you haven't explained why you don't think he would not have worked, so I do feel it is harsh to just say "I don't think it would have been good for the show to have Cosby on it. It's that simple." I just do not see why people like to look at things in black and white like that, especially given that at least IMHO Cosby is a decent actor who would know that "GAH" wasn't "I, Spy" and Culp wasn't Kelly anymore - and still made it work. That all said, I would've urged SJC if he did do this it'd be a one time thing. If it were regular, then I'd understand the potential issues of people remembering "I, Spy," and thinking they're one and the same, but maybe a one time thing wouldn't have been bad. Also, I'm by NO MEANS downplaying the duo of Ralph and Bill - I love the characters of the show and the team is what made it work. However, I'm not going to exaggerate their accomplishments either. That said, part of the fun of the show is to wonder what-if as far a what if there were more than one team? It was something that was obviously explored based on what we're reading from those who know about the show even more so than you or I. It's just like dissecting the characteristics of Ralph and Bill to find underlying things that we do not see or understand in the show - it's all in fun. |
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 21, 2009 20:48:48 GMT -5
Mel, your correction of my previous post was inaccurate. I wasn't referring to the pilot when the president was in the helicopter; I was referring to "This is the one the suit was meant for" when Ralph saves the President flying in Air Force one from being killed by the speeding missile. Killing a US president by blowing up Air Force One no doubt would have led to war SOMEWHERE. That's AT LEAST two times Ralph and Bill "saved the planet"--from nuclear devastation in O:SS and major war in "This is the one".
Having them "save the world" each week would have been just as silly as having them fight monster from outer space each week. So, they had "minor" cases, but that included stopping Hoover Dam destruction (Hand-Painted Thai), stopping terrorists from getting arms (Price is Right), stopping evil-doers from having a super weapon (30 Seconds), preventing terrorists from blowing up Bakersfield (Train of Thought--which if successful could ALSO have lead the US to invade foreign countries to destroy the terrorist cells responsible for such horrible destruction), and so forth, as well as rescuing Tony by uncovering government corruption. Even the "little" things oftentimes had real meaning across the globe, (terrorists, Russian spies), and saved MANY lives, and prevented wars. Bill and Ralph were real heroes for the WORLD, even in their little corner of Southern California and even with their numerous flaws and self-imposed stumbling blocks, which kept them humble (generally) and immensely likeable. THAT is why the show was so great and THAT is why I believe no other suit/partners teams need apply.
Mona
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Post by MelMac on Apr 21, 2009 21:08:54 GMT -5
I stand corrected on the plane issue - it's not as if it's the first error any of us has ever made. Personally, I think the idea was a little ludicrous given that there are a jets that fly around the plane to protect it and they'd probably destroyed it/been hit/taken the hit before Air Force One was hit. Even if they couldn't detect it by radar, it was too big to not miss seeing.  However, I have seen the show enough to know of several times where the suit - through stopping things locally - was used to save the world, including "O:SS" and "Suit" One can also say the same for: - "Plague" depending on how much small pox they had been able to release (hey, if they can have a pandemic of the Spanish flu in the early 20th century, anything is possible).
- international incident that might've had a country declare war on the US had Prince Aha had he been kidnapped and murdered in "Wizards and Warlocks"
- The weapons that would've been bought with the monies from a rigged baseball game in "200MPH Fastball" (which would overthrow a foreign government that was loyal to the United States)
- The pirated ships had the US been one of those - and people been kidnapped or they were weapons ships which in turn the pirates could use to take over other ships or countries - "Devil in the Deep Blue Sea"
- The overthrow/murder of a president - domestic "Pilot," "Suit was Meant For" and foreign "Chicken in Every Plot"
- Had Yuri been killed and the microfilm in the ski been taken by enemy agents - potential loss of vital information gained for the United States - "It's all Downhill From Here"
But, given your comments - that has been my point all along. As I have mentioned several times in previous posts there were local activities that - if Ralph and Bill not intervened - would've led to world domination. That said, I will maintain that they may or may not be the only ones who have a suit. For every thing you listed, however, there's also cases that had little if any relevance to helping save the world that they used the suit for - examples: - Shelia in "Beast in the Black" who was just trying to get her life back.
- "Hog Wild" which was a bunch of bikers who were wanting to destroy a town.
- "Desparado" which dealt with selling horses for dog food.
- "Shock Will Kill You" - it can be argued the electric monster could've been international, but at the same time, water kills it so it'd had a hell of a time getting out of the Americas.
- "Diablo" - angry miners wanting no one to "Squat" on their mine
- "Good Samaritan" - JJ was only after killing Ralph and Bill for putting him in prison and JJ wanted everyone to find out Ralph had the suit.
- "It's Only Rock and Roll" - the men wanting their cut of the money from the singer's records - which they were claiming fraudently.
- "Hit Car" - The bad guy was after Bill only.
This is also to not mention the fact that they used the suit a few times just for personal use: - Ralph skiing in "It's All Downhill from Here"
- Bill wanting Ralph using the suit to find the mine (Ralph only doing so when Bill agreed - albeit reluctantly - to split the finds equally)
- Bill having Ralph use the suit to solve cold cases such as the Lindberg case. (And to clarify, the guns case they did find was coincidental).
- Though not considered canon, in "GAHeroine" Ralph used the suit for publicity such as breaking a glass bottle with his teeth.
All this said, The Greatest Russian Hero - which WAS considered for a possible story - would've been an interesting thought on it, especially given that it was the USSR at the time. It would make one wonder if he could be trusted to help America or would he possibly abuse the suit and find a way to use it to sabotage America. The same could be held for our duo - Bill did ponder the possibility several times in the series and asked Ralph to help - which Ralph vehemently opposed. Had the show had a full third season or four seasons, this might've been considered. We'll never know though. The more I think about it though - they might not have done this idea because of the risk that DC might try to sue "GAH" again for copyright, but a different character (The Green Lantern). Now, that might not have been possible due to double indemnity, but it would explain a hesitancy to write even one story where there were two wearers of the suit. |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 21, 2009 21:21:00 GMT -5
I think an electric alien would have been a world problem had it continued to feed and grow.  |
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Post by MelMac on Apr 21, 2009 21:30:42 GMT -5
I think an electric alien would have been a world problem had it continued to feed and grow. Unless it got flying powers - unlikely given it was getting fat eating electricity - it'd probably stayed in the Americas IMHO. Water kills it, one reason it's good for the earth to be 75% oceans - not to mention lakes, rivers and ponds. Well that or it gave birth and one of the little ones managed to get on the plane and fly to another country... though it'd be difficult as it fed off energy like its mom did with the space shuttle. (and I now cue the "Little Shop of Horrors" theme and the plant going "FEED ME!" ) |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 21, 2009 22:21:55 GMT -5
It managed to piggyback onto a space shuttle...it can piggyback onto an airplane or go to Canada, Mexico, Central and South America...etc.
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Post by MelMac on Apr 21, 2009 22:53:02 GMT -5
It managed to piggyback onto a space shuttle...it can piggyback onto an airplane or go to Canada, Mexico, Central and South America...etc. Or, it could get exercise and just travel across the Americas by "foot" and avoid water when it needed to. ... ... then again, I guess it can eat an inflight meal of electricity and crash land where it wanted to as well. |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 21, 2009 23:08:15 GMT -5
If it came on a shuttle once, hopping onto an airplane is easily feasible to world travel. |
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Post by MelMac on Apr 22, 2009 8:31:36 GMT -5
If it came on a shuttle once, hopping onto an airplane is easily feasible to world travel. True, but again I don't know. Space shuttles a. carry a lot more electrical power and b. travel at such a high velocity. If the electric monster wanted to get anywhere by regular plane, he'd have to show great restraint to not suck out the energy from the plane before it landed as they fly a little slower. Does make me wonder though as far as suit powers - we know that Ralph was able to absorb the electricity thanks to the suit, but could it actually long term weaken the suit or suit wearer? Reason I wonder that is because Ralph - even with the suit protecting him, still fainted from all the electricity he received from landing the shuttle. |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 22, 2009 8:46:24 GMT -5
It could have been more the plowing up the dirt than the electricity or a combination of both.
Remember that the creature moved along eating up electricity where it was, but able to go without it too as it went places. It could have held its restraint, probably like people get full after eating so much, and then fed when it landed.
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Post by MelMac on Apr 22, 2009 8:52:42 GMT -5
All I know is that reading these posts on the electric monster are making me think of it being Edward (Twilight) and Barnabas Collins (Dark Shadows) - vampires who had to restrain themselves from their instincts (drinking human blood). It'd probably take a lot of restraint for the monster, given its instincts would be to suck the energy out of the machines. Then again - survival usually outweighs all other instincts, so who knows? |
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 22, 2009 9:29:52 GMT -5
Well, it didn't suck the life out of the space shuttle until it was back in Earth's orbit. Plus, who knows how long it was in space without energy to feed on until the space shuttle. It might be like bacteria: Able to hibernate. Either way, I see the electric monster as a world problem.
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Post by MelMac on Apr 22, 2009 11:15:18 GMT -5
Well, it didn't suck the life out of the space shuttle until it was back in Earth's orbit. Plus, who knows how long it was in space without energy to feed on until the space shuttle. It might be like bacteria: Able to hibernate. Either way, I see the electric monster as a world problem. It could've been, but it'd been hard for the most part IMHO - and depends on its nature. |
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Post by MST3Claye on Apr 22, 2009 11:18:06 GMT -5
Does make me wonder though as far as suit powers - we know that Ralph was able to absorb the electricity thanks to the suit, but could it actually long term weaken the suit or suit wearer? Reason I wonder that is because Ralph - even with the suit protecting him, still fainted from all the electricity he received from landing the shuttle. I don't think they've ever dealt with the suit losing it's power other than having none in the Fourth Dimension. That would be an interesting story idea. As for Ralph fainting after landing the shuttle, I didn't really see him as fainting than more him being dazed by possibly a mix of landing the shuttle and being electrified. That segment right after he gets up and talks with Bill and Pam was odd to me. He seemed to act dazed or confused. Which also leads to the question, with the suit not fully protecting the exposed body parts (well the head, he's never hurt his hand) could the exposure to all the electricity have effected him that way? |
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Post by MelMac on Apr 22, 2009 12:24:28 GMT -5
Does make me wonder though as far as suit powers - we know that Ralph was able to absorb the electricity thanks to the suit, but could it actually long term weaken the suit or suit wearer? Reason I wonder that is because Ralph - even with the suit protecting him, still fainted from all the electricity he received from landing the shuttle. I don't think they've ever dealt with the suit losing it's power other than having none in the Fourth Dimension. That would be an interesting story idea. As for Ralph fainting after landing the shuttle, I didn't really see him as fainting than more him being dazed by possibly a mix of landing the shuttle and being electrified. That segment right after he gets up and talks with Bill and Pam was odd to me. He seemed to act dazed or confused. Which also leads to the question, with the suit not fully protecting the exposed body parts (well the head, he's never hurt his hand) could the exposure to all the electricity have effected him that way? The case I was referring to is when he falls flat on his face and the arc of electricity goes between his feet. But, yeah, after that, he seemed to be doing rather well considering. I've felt that too a point, the electricity could've affected him more than it did even in the suit: He could've had busted eardrums, temporary loss of hearing, been blinded, loss of sensations in his fingers Etc. Fortunately, the suit protected him in those regards and just a. let him drain out the electricity and b. turn him into a magnet. |
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"FOUR?!"
