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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 26, 2009 21:09:26 GMT -5
Mary Anne,
I believe the episode you reference is LIVE AT ELEVEN. ;D
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Post by MelMac on Apr 27, 2009 8:23:34 GMT -5
While I appreciated ideas that Culp, Katt and Cannell fostered for their own show, I didn't agree with them all. Vanity and TGAHeroine being two of them--terrible ideas and terrible productions in my mind. I am very happy to read the ideas the show had for a Russian Hero, but since it's not canon, one doesn't have to make it part of one's own storyline for the show. TGAH was a GREAT show, but it stimulated my own imagination, which I actually value more than conceptual ideas from the actors and creator of the show which never panned out and did not have actual air time. It's just like the comic books--I like some ideas Katt is introducing and find some questionable. This is HIS point of view, which even though okayed by Cannell, is not a point of view I feel obligated to also believe. Mona (Now, Melmac, go ahead--quote me and disagree! It's a board ritual by now!) I don't disagree - as you know I do not see "GAHeroine" as canon. ("Vanity" while it's not my favorite, I also take into consideration that production had VERY little money by then, even resorting to apparently using Culp's house for a couple of scenes). Plus, you have your opinion, and I have mine - no one's is absolute, and both are respected. I do have two questions regarding "I like some ideas Katt is introducing and find some questionable. This is HIS point of view, which even though okayed by Cannell, is not a point of view I feel obligated to also believe." : 1. If Culp were writing the comic and had similar or the same ideas that Katt has had with the comic or added potentially questionable ideas that were from his POV of the show - and SJC OK'd them, would you feel the same way as you do about the comic? The only reason I ask is that in "Vanity" and "Lilacs" we saw Culp add some lore to "GAH" such as the sleepers (big change in of ideas in the series), Ralph being able to communicate - mentally - with animals to help others, and be able to solve a decades old cold case, this case the Lindbergh case in "Lilacs." I have little doubt Culp too would've had some of his ideas from his point of view that would be questionable to some fans, as was the sleepers in "Vanity." 2. Outside of the drawing of Bill and the characterizations/interactions - all of which are traditional "GAH" - what do you like about the comic book, including changes? (As a disclaimer, there are some aspects I am not fond of as far as changes to "GAH"; however, I knew there were going to be several the moment they said it was present day. )
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 27, 2009 8:53:01 GMT -5
Hello, Mel, Those are two valid questions. Yes, I think it's obvious I would have my own filter even if Culp wrote the comic--as I've made EVIDENTLY clear, I hate Culp's Vanity and don't include it in my own personal canon of the show. So, if he did more crappy stuff like that in the comic, yeah, it would be immediately excised from my viewpoint! I don't like all of Culp's "I Spy" episodes, either, but they are not so bizarre like Vanity that I have to remove them from the "I Spy" canon. In fact, I'm sure I like the comic MORE with Katt writing it than with Culp writing it! All that sleeper crap in Vanity, Pam seeing the holograph when Ralph touched her, Bill being cured of the gunshot without being first in the healing room with the lights, Bill maybe having a child out of wedlock, Bill being a freedom fighter in a Latin American country, AGAINST the US wishes--that was in 43 minutes! Culp would probably introduce something new and controversial every other page. Mel, I think if you re-read my posts on the comic books so far you can see I've been both very happy with some aspects (Bill, Ralph's and Tony's personality presentation), skeptical of others (really, killing someone by dousing them with blood and having attack eagles eat them? , really?), and dislike others (Ralph having a man-child as a room-mate). I think your lingering idea that I don't like Katt and therefore am biased against his work is really something that you have to entirely stop thinking. It is simply not true. Katt is a great guy; I loved meeting him. Mona
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Post by MelMac on Apr 27, 2009 9:07:54 GMT -5
Hello, Mel, Those are two valid questions. Yes, I think it's obvious I would have my own filter even if Culp wrote the comic--as I've made EVIDENTLY clear, I hate Culp's Vanity and don't include it in my own personal canon of the show. So, if he did more crappy stuff like that in the comic, yeah, it would be immediately excised from my viewpoint! I don't like all of Culp's "I Spy" episodes, either, but they are not so bizarre like Vanity that I have to remove them from the "I Spy" canon. In fact, I'm sure I like the comic MORE with Katt writing it than with Culp writing it! All that sleeper crap in Vanity, Pam seeing the holograph when Ralph touched her, Bill being cured of the gunshot without being first in the healing room with the lights, Bill maybe having a child out of wedlock, Bill being a freedom fighter in a Latin American country, AGAINST the US wishes--that was in 43 minutes! Culp would probably introduce something new and controversial every other page. Mel, I think if you re-read my posts on the comic books so far you can see I've been both very happy with some aspects (Bill, Ralph's and Tony's personality presentation), skeptical of others (really, killing someone by dousing them with blood and having attack eagles eat them? , really?), and dislike others (Ralph having a man-child as a room-mate). I think your lingering idea that I don't like Katt and therefore am biased against his work is really something that you have to entirely stop thinking. It is simply not true. Katt is a great guy; I loved meeting him. Mona Thank you for the responses. I guess the only reason I asked questions is that at times I feel reading your responses and comic reviews that you lean heavily on how well Bill is drawn and written. And, I also sometimes wonder about your feelings about Katt given that you mentioned having doubts about his writing abilities and wondering if he could be fair in drawing and writing Bill (i.e. that he'd put Ralph first/predominant in the series) - though it's clear he does both quite well. (That said, point taken on what you think I assume about your feelings about Katt; however, one can say the same in regard to me and Culp ). My opinion only viewing "Vanity" and knowing it was the last ep filmed - Bill's recovering bit in the ship, not going through the stasis chamber, may have had more to do with the limited resources left in the production's coffers than actual script. The CGI they used for it would've probably been out of reach for them to use by then. This is also noticeable in that most of the ship's scenes for "Vanity" were from "Divorce," when Bill enters the main room and meets the green guys first. I do have one minor quibble - only because I have read the first comic recently - is the birds that attack the man are more likely condors which was possibly crossbred/engineered to include the eagle's attack traits. I say that because the birds look more like vultures than they do eagles. But, while it is a bit - weird, even for "GAH" - it's a nice tie-in to today's worries of the dangers of genetic engineering/cloning animals.
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Post by culpkatt on Apr 27, 2009 11:29:45 GMT -5
This is an interesting thread. And thanks to Mortimer for providing some fascinating inside information. I always felt that GAH had a sad fate...there was just so much potential. To this day I can't watch 'Thirty Seconds Over Little Tokyo' and not feel a bit sad that the show went out that way.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 27, 2009 15:03:36 GMT -5
What can I say? I like "30 Seconds" and I don't really feel it is any more silly or stupid than a guy in a super red suit with various powers....If there are green aliens giving out technologically advanced red suits, there could be a general wishing to nuke Russia to armageddon and someone inventing a laser gun. James Bond did it; why not TGAH? There's much in that episode I like. Hell, don't we ALL really love the electric monster episode given that the focus was on our characters dealing with it and not necessarily the monster itself?
Mona
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Post by Videofox on Apr 27, 2009 16:52:28 GMT -5
Yeah that's what made it a GAH show and not a generic superhero/monster show: the freaking out of Ralph over whether or not he could take on a thing from another world. And I don't have a problem with them encountering an extraterrestrial life form. Greenguys, anyone? Helloooo?? This show may have started out exactly like our own (superheroes are only in the funny papers, UFOs don't exist, the Loch Ness Monster is a plastic toy) but after Ralph gets the suit, his eyes are opened up to things in our world the rest of us don't know anything about.
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Team Blue
Agent
"Business" attire... .45 semi automatic, aviators, three piece suit....
Posts: 118
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Post by Team Blue on Apr 27, 2009 18:06:14 GMT -5
Mary Anne, I believe the episode you reference is LIVE AT ELEVEN. ;D Thank ya! I knew somebody would set me straight. ;D
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Post by culpkatt on Apr 28, 2009 22:23:15 GMT -5
Vanity was just tossed to Culp because the show was coming to an end and nobody cared what was put in the can - this happens sometimes. They did the same for Manny Coto (I think that's how his name is spelled) on Enterprise. The show was in the toilet and they tossed him a couple of episodes to do with as he wanted. So Vanity completely falls in Culp's lap. Heroine was Cannell's last grasp at lighting in a bottle - but it didn't work. The Cosby thing was embraced by everyone and was to be something special - a 2 parter, that in my opinion would have opened the show up wider and I like that. I've never been one of those people who just look at the painting instructions that came with my model kit and follow them, I always step a little out of the box and look at everything I have and trying to take something a little farther. Some of the things wrong with Hero and why is lost viewership and Katt's interest is because the show didn't grow. They were busting the same type of bad guys in season 3 as they were in season 1 in certain episodes. Branching out a bit, new powers, new types of stories is what they show needed, but Cannell kept the show as close to a Rockford Files format as possible and that only works for a short while when dealing with superhero aspect. I'm picking up GRH Tuesday and I can hardly wait to read, what I think, would have possibly made a great expansion. I suppose this is why the third season was somewhat of a disappointment, IMHO. It had a terrific start with 'Divorce' then kept covering the same ground as previous seasons without bringing anything fresh, just more generic bad guy plotlines. 'Live At Eleven' was a nice change of pace since Ralph discovers a new power after the suit is exposed to plutonium. It just seems like the show rarely went anywhere during its final season. The Russians show up again chasing a high school student. A rock star is being terrorized by a biker gang. Ralph becomes an athlete again like he did in season 2. Ralph, Bill and Pam learn how to play Wizards and Warlocks. Maxwell, a flag-waving ultra-conservative, goes to South America to help install a Marxist government. even though he can't speak Spanish. And a laser gun makes an appearance, pretty much a staple of 80s sci-fi formula. You could tell there just wasn't much interest left in the show from its producers and especially the network. The show did branch out in new directions by exploring new suit powers with episodes like Beast in the Black, The Shock Will Kill You, Divorce, Live At Eleven, Here's Looking At You, Kid. Those episodes were always fun to watch just to see how the trio would react to that situation. I think Mortimer is right on...the show needed more growth in it's third season. I can see why Katt may have lost interest, but at least he never looked bored. Quite a professional, he must be.
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Team Blue
Agent
"Business" attire... .45 semi automatic, aviators, three piece suit....
Posts: 118
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Post by Team Blue on Apr 29, 2009 19:08:04 GMT -5
I suppose this is why the third season was somewhat of a disappointment, IMHO. It had a terrific start with 'Divorce' then kept covering the same ground as previous seasons without bringing anything fresh, just more generic bad guy plotlines. 'Live At Eleven' was a nice change of pace since Ralph discovers a new power after the suit is exposed to plutonium. It just seems like the show rarely went anywhere during its final season. The Russians show up again chasing a high school student. A rock star is being terrorized by a biker gang. Ralph becomes an athlete again like he did in season 2. Ralph, Bill and Pam learn how to play Wizards and Warlocks. Maxwell, a flag-waving ultra-conservative, goes to South America to help install a Marxist government. even though he can't speak Spanish. And a laser gun makes an appearance, pretty much a staple of 80s sci-fi formula. You could tell there just wasn't much interest left in the show from its producers and especially the network. The show did branch out in new directions by exploring new suit powers with episodes like Beast in the Black, The Shock Will Kill You, Divorce, Live At Eleven, Here's Looking At You, Kid. Those episodes were always fun to watch just to see how the trio would react to that situation. I think Mortimer is right on...the show needed more growth in it's third season. I can see why Katt may have lost interest, but at least he never looked bored. Quite a professional, he must be. Indeed. Despite the new power discovered in "Beast in the Black" it's never used again. Ralph's ability to see into the 4th dimension - the spirit world - I think had potential in future plots. Of course, "Beast" is a well done episode maybe they figured anything subsequent from it wouldn't hold up as well. Or they'd end up with some cheesy Halloween-themed episode every year. LOL
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on May 6, 2009 11:00:20 GMT -5
I thought it was a big mistake that they never tried that whole 'supernatural' thing again. For me, it worked so well in The Beast In The Black - I never understood why they only tried the angle once.
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Post by Videofox on May 6, 2009 11:40:53 GMT -5
That would also make sense to me, Ralph being able to perceive things beyond our reality. I have a personal theory that the reason some people see "ghosts" or hearing voices while others cannot could be explained as certain people are born with certain brainwave patterns that act as antennas for what some might call "supernatural." No scientific data here, though...just a personal justification for why some people that I know personally who swear up and down that they've seen ghosts while I never have, but want to. (Well, I like to think that I would want to, but at the same time I would probably have to change my shorts if it ever happened.) The suit gave Ralph a form of ESP artificially, so he should be picking up these types of signals on a regular basis.
I suppose they tried to keep the show grounded in reality as much as possible, but nowadays what was considered science fiction back then is becoming reality. The genetically engineered killer birds fit right in with today's version of real science. Plots like the ones shown on FOX's "Fringe" would actually be a perfect theme to recur on a current GAH if done sparingly.
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Post by MelMac on May 7, 2009 23:31:55 GMT -5
I thought it was a big mistake that they never tried that whole 'supernatural' thing again. For me, it worked so well in The Beast In The Black - I never understood why they only tried the angle once. I agree, it'd been nice if they did it at least one other time - Ralph going through the fourth dimension or having to deal with the supernatural. I'd like to have seen him have to either face the beast again or maybe fight a different type of ghost - maybe for example Carlini dying shortly after his story and then wanting to come back and kill Ralph and Bill as well as the magicians for now not only "playing with his toys" (Magic tricks), but for causing his death by putting him away in jail. The only downside IMHO would be risking that audiences would start to expect it, and the show was more of the real life situations with the suit and the green guys thrown in the mix.
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Post by toddacross on Sept 22, 2009 16:15:28 GMT -5
Given the way the suit was cloned in the Web series and my own personal beleifs on this, I would think the suit would have a 'secret identity' setting. A way for Ralph to make the suit look like regular street clothes and then look like the suit. This might have been brought up before, i don't know. It just seems like Suit 101 to me.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 22, 2009 17:14:20 GMT -5
I like to think that it doesn't have the secret identity need. After all, the user can go invisible. ;D
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Post by toddacross on Sept 22, 2009 22:18:34 GMT -5
I get the invisible part but some setting that bonds to Ralph. Something that allows him to wear the suit all the time without being obvious.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 23, 2009 1:04:42 GMT -5
I get the invisible part but some setting that bonds to Ralph. Something that allows him to wear the suit all the time without being obvious. But that wouldn't be as much fun. ;D
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Post by toddacross on Sept 23, 2009 14:31:25 GMT -5
Ohhhh! Ya know, that is the one thing I tend to leave out of my theories. I always forget fun. Which is even sadder when you realize it. <sigh>
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Sept 23, 2009 15:54:16 GMT -5
Ohhhh! Ya know, that is the one thing I tend to leave out of my theories. I always forget fun. Which is even sadder when you realize it. <sigh> That's okay. Maybe that's why you are here...to help remember fun. ;D
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Post by The Greatest Italian Hero on May 7, 2014 9:17:08 GMT -5
I was thinking about the fact the suit doesn't work until it is EXPOSED and not covered by regular clothes.
I'm thinking about "environmental energies". Maybe the suit absorbs FROM "environmental energies" (air, sun, water and so on) and convert potential energy into powers for the weavers... and thus need to be exposed to do so.
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