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Post by Videofox on Apr 22, 2009 17:07:04 GMT -5
Not in 1986. It would have been Holly. ;D That is true... I knew there was a discrepancy in the dates but didn't check to see how much. After all, anyone who has seen or read "Watchmen" can realize that the activities of real superheroes could have a major impact on what we perceive as "our" history. (i.e. Nixon was a five-term President in 1985). I too believe that GAH would probably be better off with the one-team approach. Any more than that just smacks of the "Evil Leaper" plots on "Quantum Leap." And she wasn't really really evil, you know. Just her Maxwell/Al-like partner was the creep. A Russian hero would really be trying to do good, but his/her companion would probably be a KGB agent trying to corrupt the hero all the time, dangerously far beyond the occasional self-serving tangents of Bill and Ralph.
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Post by greenguy on Apr 22, 2009 17:43:21 GMT -5
[quote I respect your opinion on Cosby; however, you haven't explained why you don't think he would not have worked. I have to say I'm glad Cosby never appeared. I remember when I originally read that article back in the 80's, I thought it was a bad idea. The days of Cosby being an unknown and on I Spy were over. He was known more as a comedian by the time TGAH aired, and although our favorite show was a comedy, it wasn't a yuch, yuch, yuch, laugh, laugh kinda of series Cosby was known for. Oh god it's the Jello pudding guy going up against Bill Maxwell! I'm not saying the guy wasn't a good enough actor to pull it off, I just did not want to see him dumped into the world of TGAH. It kinda smacks of Richard Pryor bring in Superman III. Although that had not happened yet.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 22, 2009 18:00:59 GMT -5
Right on, GG! Just what I thought! I love it when someone agrees with me! Mona
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Post by MelMac on Apr 22, 2009 18:27:52 GMT -5
Yes, but that's the beauty of the boards - no one has to agree with everyone all the time. And personally, I'm glad that Cosby wasn't in it for the reasons greenguy said. That doesn't mean that I don't think that - had it happened and he was in there - he couldn't take it seriously, and if so, it might've been a fun touch if they had. Greenguy - how would you have felt if Cosby were Macke in the pilot, which I think was considered? Wasn't that a consideration for the pilot?
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Post by MortimerWest on Apr 22, 2009 23:39:08 GMT -5
Cosby being on the show may have bumped the rating up just enough to save it.
Also, Culp and Cosby are friends in real life - I want to say that Bill (Katt) may have more insight on what it is that they were planning if the episode had went. I'm going to have to ask him.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 23, 2009 0:20:34 GMT -5
Culp and Cosby have been close friends since "I Spy" began in 1965. They instantly connected upon meeting and it's wonderful that their friendship has endured throughout the years. However, Cosby was not really the hot ticket item in 1982 or so he became upon the beginning of his famous, long-lasting TV show, "The Cosby Show" which ran from 1984-1992. Whether or not he would have "saved" TGAH is unknown; I doubt it myself. There were obviously lots of administrative issues between the network and Cannell and crew going on outside of whether Cosby had some miraculous touch. Yes, he might have bumped up the ratings a little, but I can't see that having Cosby in one episode would have removed all that tension and disagreement, or changed when TGAH was scheduled to air and so forth--the real things that doomed the show.
However, learning from Katt what storyline was potentially planned for Cosby's character would of course be quite interesting to learn. If someone can inquire about that, please absolutely report back to the list!
Mona
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Post by greenguy on Apr 23, 2009 5:27:40 GMT -5
Greenguy - how would you have felt if Cosby were Macke in the pilot, which I think was considered? Wasn't that a consideration for the pilot? Someone mentioned that here I think, but I've never heard it anywhere else. I still don't think that would have been a good idea. THe Jello man beams down from a UFO.....LOL
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Post by MST3Claye on Apr 23, 2009 10:30:41 GMT -5
Cosby being on the show may have bumped the rating up just enough to save it. Also, Culp and Cosby are friends in real life - I want to say that Bill (Katt) may have more insight on what it is that they were planning if the episode had went. I'm going to have to ask him. I have to agree with the ratings bump. We have to remember, this was a time before the Jello Pudding Pops advertising that he is so well known for now. Plus some other things he's known for now that are a bit negative. Around the time of TGAH he had made a Fat Albert Easter Special, plus "Bill Cosby, Himself" which I think everyone enjoyed.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Apr 23, 2009 11:52:59 GMT -5
The thing about the ratings is they were GOOD (or great) in Season 1. ABC just didn't treat the show right (regardless of WHO was starring in it) and then literally went out of their way to SCREW the show in Season 3 (moving it to Friday an hour later and up against Knight Rider and Dallas).
Hell, even when they moved it BACK to Thursday in the earlier timeslot (later on in Season 3), ratings went back UP, but the network STILL cancelled the show and left 4 (count 'em... 4!!!) episodes unaired.
Insane.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 23, 2009 12:47:59 GMT -5
My point exactly. To say that Cosby would have been some redeemer of the entire show just doesn't make sense, given that the "Suits" (not the red ones) seemed committed to killing the show for no clear reason, ratings or not. As Maxwell sums up what we all know and what drives us somewhat crazy--the show was not cancelled because it was slumming at the bottom of the ratings.
Mona
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Post by MortimerWest on Apr 23, 2009 20:56:30 GMT -5
I have a video Katt gave me - him walking around the set of "Vanity" talking with people on the crew (everyone in full knowledge that this was the last episode they were doing. Katt even comments that he would never get away with bringing a video camera to the set but "the ratings were in the toilet" and the show was dead so nobody cares). - So, a real guest star would have been good for the show.
Also, I spoke to Katt last night and he full well remembers The Greatest Russian Hero idea. It was a Culp idea but Cannell and Katt both loved the concept and Cosby guest starring would be something truly exciting and good for the show. At the time - Cosby was being offered shows by all the major networks - but he didn't like any of the ideas presented to him. He did however like GAH and was good friends with Culp - so the possibility of this happening was very real.
I explained the back and fourth going on on here about Bill and Ralph defending the entire planet and the possibility of other people having suits - which is something he always liked about my script - I'm not going to quote him, but I'm a few steps closer to getting him to post here with his views. Sparks and GAH comics are on his dinner plate as well as some other cool stuff, but it'll be nice to have some back-up when he does.
So this call lead to another - a friend who I've known for a long time that has worked in the industry for years (retired now). He always has great stories about the goings on in the 70's and 80's. I was tipped off he may have something I would be interested in - and guess what, the tip was right on the money. Soon, I will have a copy of the script-ment for Greatest Russian Hero in my hands and that will be an interesting read to say the least.
All I know right now is - the episode was to be a 2 parter and aired during sweeps.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Apr 23, 2009 21:16:50 GMT -5
Awesome information, Mortimer.
Good luck on getting Katt here. ;D
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Post by maniacmatt on Apr 24, 2009 9:14:43 GMT -5
I think it would have been kinda neat to have Cosby on the show. I think he could have done a good job and help the ratings some. I don't believe his being in one episod would have saved the show though.
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Post by MelMac on Apr 24, 2009 12:06:43 GMT -5
My point exactly. To say that Cosby would have been some redeemer of the entire show just doesn't make sense, given that the "Suits" (not the red ones) seemed committed to killing the show for no clear reason, ratings or not. As Maxwell sums up what we all know and what drives us somewhat crazy--the show was not cancelled because it was slumming at the bottom of the ratings. Mona I don't think anyone feels that he would've been the savior of "GAH," but it might've (I'm not saying it would - I am not a producer from the time ) brought just enough spark to get ABC to reconsider just doing half a third season for "GAH." Getting a pretty well known actor - if not celebrity - usually helps a show a little. More than likely ABC just wanted to get rid of the show because they may have had troubles with SJC or some of the scripts that were written for the show. I think "The Long Fall" was victim to this, and why we have "Best Desk Scenario" for the end of season one.
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Post by greenguy on Apr 24, 2009 14:22:10 GMT -5
More than likely ABC just wanted to get rid of the show because they may have had troubles with SJC or some of the scripts that were written for the show. I think "The Long Fall" was victim to this, and why we have "Best Desk Scenario" for the end of season one. In an interview with Culp back in the 80's, he says Long Fall was to be the last show of the 1st season. Then it was realized that after the episode finished production, it would air too late in that first year, and everything else would be in reruns and the network would never get their money back. Remember those were the days that series finished up by a certain time in late April, and May and there was no original episodes aired except between Sept. and May. Now I guess that doesn't explain why the script wasn't just held until the following year, but I have no answer for that.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 25, 2009 16:01:06 GMT -5
While I appreciated ideas that Culp, Katt and Cannell fostered for their own show, I didn't agree with them all. Vanity and TGAHeroine being two of them--terrible ideas and terrible productions in my mind. I am very happy to read the ideas the show had for a Russian Hero, but since it's not canon, one doesn't have to make it part of one's own storyline for the show. TGAH was a GREAT show, but it stimulated my own imagination, which I actually value more than conceptual ideas from the actors and creator of the show which never panned out and did not have actual air time. It's just like the comic books--I like some ideas Katt is introducing and find some questionable. This is HIS point of view, which even though okayed by Cannell, is not a point of view I feel obligated to also believe. Mona (Now, Melmac, go ahead--quote me and disagree! It's a board ritual by now!)
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Post by MortimerWest on Apr 26, 2009 15:26:38 GMT -5
Vanity was just tossed to Culp because the show was coming to an end and nobody cared what was put in the can - this happens sometimes. They did the same for Manny Coto (I think that's how his name is spelled) on Enterprise. The show was in the toilet and they tossed him a couple of episodes to do with as he wanted. So Vanity completely falls in Culp's lap. Heroine was Cannell's last grasp at lighting in a bottle - but it didn't work. The Cosby thing was embraced by everyone and was to be something special - a 2 parter, that in my opinion would have opened the show up wider and I like that. I've never been one of those people who just look at the painting instructions that came with my model kit and follow them, I always step a little out of the box and look at everything I have and trying to take something a little farther. Some of the things wrong with Hero and why is lost viewership and Katt's interest is because the show didn't grow. They were busting the same type of bad guys in season 3 as they were in season 1 in certain episodes. Branching out a bit, new powers, new types of stories is what they show needed, but Cannell kept the show as close to a Rockford Files format as possible and that only works for a short while when dealing with superhero aspect.
I'm picking up GRH Tuesday and I can hardly wait to read, what I think, would have possibly made a great expansion.
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 26, 2009 16:15:37 GMT -5
MW, I think you and I paint from the same out of box paint sets!! I absolutely agree that growth of the show was necessary. Actually, what's very interesting about the show is that Maxwell DID grow and change. One wonders if the writers saw more of interest in this very sensitive and vulnerable yet blustery and obnoxious Fed, than in the generally good guy but also somewhat angry teacher. Ralph changed in terms of being able to use his powers better, but HE, as a character didn't change. We saw in numerous episode the inside story and history of Maxwell, and he was not the same guy in the pilot that he wound up being as the show progressed. One wonders if that frustrated Katt a bit. Would that have helped by adding new powers? Or knew other suited characters? One wonders; it's not given that would be the case. Myself, I doubt it. But, anyway, the SHOW itself didn't change, that is true. How really could the show have grown outside of new powers, which isn't that big a deal and is rather humdrum overall. That would get boring too, I think. Without having to have the Russians have a suited hero, I can think of some other ideas for show growth. The government gets the idea that something funny is going on? Ralph losing his teaching job due to too many missed classes and has to struggle to find work while saving the world again? Something goes very wrong with a power and it takes a few episodes to undo the damage done to whatever/whoever was damaged? Pam loses patience with Ralph missing so much of their life together and separates from him? Ralph and Bill discover they have some unusual powers together--such as Bill feeling when Ralph is holographing him, or even some telepathy between only the two of them? Bill does meet someone special and has to hide from her Ralph's red suit? Ralph's mom gets terminal cancer and dies, with Ralph not figuring out how to use the suit, if it even works that way, to save her and his anger over having a suit that has worked for others and not for him? Heck I'm not even a television writer, and just thought those up in the last minute, and they seem pretty good ideas to me. Mona
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Team Blue
Agent
"Business" attire... .45 semi automatic, aviators, three piece suit....
Posts: 118
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Post by Team Blue on Apr 26, 2009 17:46:27 GMT -5
MW, I think you and I paint from the same out of box paint sets!! I absolutely agree that growth of the show was necessary. Actually, what's very interesting about the show is that Maxwell DID grow and change. One wonders if the writers saw more of interest in this very sensitive and vulnerable yet blustery and obnoxious Fed, than in the generally good guy but also somewhat angry teacher. Ralph changed in terms of being able to use his powers better, but HE, as a character didn't change. We saw in numerous episode the inside story and history of Maxwell, and he was not the same guy in the pilot that he wound up being as the show progressed. One wonders if that frustrated Katt a bit. Would that have helped by adding new powers? Or knew other suited characters? One wonders; it's not given that would be the case. Myself, I doubt it. But, anyway, the SHOW itself didn't change, that is true. How really could the show have grown outside of new powers, which isn't that big a deal and is rather humdrum overall. That would get boring too, I think. Without having to have the Russians have a suited hero, I can think of some other ideas for show growth. The government gets the idea that something funny is going on? Ralph losing his teaching job due to too many missed classes and has to struggle to find work while saving the world again? Something goes very wrong with a power and it takes a few episodes to undo the damage done to whatever/whoever was damaged? Pam loses patience with Ralph missing so much of their life together and separates from him? Ralph and Bill discover they have some unusual powers together--such as Bill feeling when Ralph is holographing him, or even some telepathy between only the two of them? Bill does meet someone special and has to hide from her Ralph's red suit? Ralph's mom gets terminal cancer and dies, with Ralph not figuring out how to use the suit, if it even works that way, to save her and his anger over having a suit that has worked for others and not for him? Heck I'm not even a television writer, and just thought those up in the last minute, and they seem pretty good ideas to me. Mona Ok, who hacked into my computer and peeked at my fanfic in progress? A couple of those ideas you mentioned, Mona, I flirt with in my fic. (I'm not gonna say which ones just to keep the suspense. Assuming anybody reads the silly thing. LOL) That being said, I think there was a lot of potential for various plots and whatnot with TGAH and the show could've grown quite a bit. The suit itself had all kinds of potential. Imagination was the limit as to what other powers Ralph could have discovered. Personally, I don't like how he loses the dang instruction book at the end of DVS. At the least, they coulda had him hold on to it for a few episodes and introduce some new powers and THEN maybe he coulda lost it again. I also didn't like the idea of Ralph discovering some new power with the suit and then only being able to use it in that one episode and never using it again. (I think "Price is Right" is the one I'm thinking of, the mind control thing? Somebody will correct me, I'm sure. LOL. But at the end of the episode it was like, "Well, that's it. Gone. Nice while it lasted." Sheesh.) I think the creators/writers just got into a "formula" and stuck with it. (Basically playing to the audience they already had.) I'm sure it's a hard balance to keep things with the show familar enough from week to week and yet do something different with the storylines without totally alienating your audience....or jumping the shark. Unique storylines get sacraficed for keeping the status quo and keeping the network bean counters happy. Ratings, advertising dollars being the big motivators. But...that's why fanfic is such a wonderful thing. Now stop hacking into my computer and reading my story! LOL
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Post by mmderdekea on Apr 26, 2009 18:28:15 GMT -5
My dear Mary Anne,
I am hacking into my OWN fanfic ideas! ;-)
Great to hear you're working on stories, though!
Mona
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