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Post by HoudiniDerek on Oct 28, 2006 13:37:46 GMT -5
I agree that the women should be strong roles, but Holly was in her own way, with her zeal to do the right thing as she saw it...similar to Ralph in THE GOOD SAMARITAN. As for a strong suit wearer, there are plenty of examples where Ralph was not a strong person overall and only the support from those around him helped to get him straight again. I think it gave little girls the SENSE that they could be superheroes too. I am not talking about older girls, who the show did not really seemed aimed towards, but the ones who WERE that little girl's age, giving them that hope to see a woman superhero after years of Superman and Batman. Coincidentally, Jo, there IS a thread about why HEROINE DID suck.
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Post by mmderdekea on Oct 29, 2006 15:52:10 GMT -5
Hello, all,
Just two more quick comments:
1. Seattlekos and your photos of Maxwell in GAHeroine, especially that first one--you made me bark out loud so long that I now have a sore throat and my cat won't come out from under my bed. ;-))
2. HoudiniDerek--you commented that Bill had an ego bug, too.
I find that a little difficult to agree on. Bill very, very briefly mentioned using the suit for personal gain--like in "Don't Mess Around with Jim" in Vegas, but a scornful look from Ralph immediately shut that out. He mentioned riding Desperado in other race for money, but scornful looks from Ralph and Pam immediately shut that out. However, having been watching the episodes daily for the past three months, I cannot come across a scene where Bill was bragging to friends, family, Carlisle, CIA friends, Pentagon friends, etc, that he was chummy with aliens and helped save the world all the time. He was put on TV in "Lilacs", which is very improbable and no doubt against his will, and had more insecurity about it and modesty than anything else.
Bill is sometimes very assured that he knows what is going on more than the CIA, Army etc--we see that twice, in "Here's Looking At You Kid" and in "The One the Suit was Made for"--but that problem with that being ego trips is that Bill was RIGHT both times and the CIA/Army, etc were wrong! ;-)
Bill bragged now and then about a recent action he did, like "FreeFall Maxwell" in Plague, but that was more a psychological adjustment technique to deal with a previously harrowing situation. Mostly what we saw in Bill was more insecurity about what he had achieved in life, such as in "Best Desk Scenario"; he sometimes hid his insecurities under a false braggadio. For example, he bragged about his kill rate, but knew and acknowledged that it was due to Ralph's help. He just couldn't share that with anyone at the FBI. And he loved to push Carlisle's nose into it, which I think most fans appreciated him doing. I mean, there aren't any "Carlisle Cadres" out there going up against us Maxwell Maniacs.... ;-))))
But, if I missed some real serious ego trips, like we see Ralph experiencing in GAHeroine, please let me know.
Mona
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Post by MST3Claye on Oct 29, 2006 17:52:19 GMT -5
That's the problem I had with Vanity Says the Preacher. I just could not notice any ego trip with Bill that Ralph and Pam kept mentioning in that whole episode.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Oct 29, 2006 23:13:18 GMT -5
Hello, all, Just two more quick comments: 1. Seattlekos and your photos of Maxwell in GAHeroine, especially that first one--you made me bark out loud so long that I now have a sore throat and my cat won't come out from under my bed. ;-)) 2. HoudiniDerek--you commented that Bill had an ego bug, too. I find that a little difficult to agree on. Bill very, very briefly mentioned using the suit for personal gain--like in "Don't Mess Around with Jim" in Vegas, but a scornful look from Ralph immediately shut that out. He mentioned riding Desperado in other race for money, but scornful looks from Ralph and Pam immediately shut that out. However, having been watching the episodes daily for the past three months, I cannot come across a scene where Bill was bragging to friends, family, Carlisle, CIA friends, Pentagon friends, etc, that he was chummy with aliens and helped save the world all the time. He was put on TV in "Lilacs", which is very improbable and no doubt against his will, and had more insecurity about it and modesty than anything else. Bill is sometimes very assured that he knows what is going on more than the CIA, Army etc--we see that twice, in "Here's Looking At You Kid" and in "The One the Suit was Made for"--but that problem with that being ego trips is that Bill was RIGHT both times and the CIA/Army, etc were wrong! ;-) Bill bragged now and then about a recent action he did, like "FreeFall Maxwell" in Plague, but that was more a psychological adjustment technique to deal with a previously harrowing situation. Mostly what we saw in Bill was more insecurity about what he had achieved in life, such as in "Best Desk Scenario"; he sometimes hid his insecurities under a false braggadio. For example, he bragged about his kill rate, but knew and acknowledged that it was due to Ralph's help. He just couldn't share that with anyone at the FBI. And he loved to push Carlisle's nose into it, which I think most fans appreciated him doing. I mean, there aren't any "Carlisle Cadres" out there going up against us Maxwell Maniacs.... ;-)))) But, if I missed some real serious ego trips, like we see Ralph experiencing in GAHeroine, please let me know. Mona Again, I think this might be better for its own topic in the main board up-top rather than in the HEROINE thread, but I have two comments. Claye--I agree...I see where the VANITY came from in that episode and once I get my episode review up, I will explain my perception on it. Mona--THE LOST DIABLO wasn't exactly the ego bug, but again, he would have used the suit for personal gain. THE BEST DESK SCENARIO wasn't exactly free of it, if you consider that Bill was going to take the DC promotion and ONLY acknowledged that Ralph helped him because the suit wouldn't work on Bill. In SATURDAY ON SUNSET BOULEVARD when he was pretending to tell of his boss, that was another insecure example. So, while I agree that he is not as overly egoed most of the time like Ralph is portrayed in HEROINE, Bill compensates for that the WHOLE series with get-rich quick schemes and belittling Ralph a lot with his remarks about "giving the suit to the wrong guy." HEROINE did NOT suck because even though she was not a good actress...Holly DID fill the suit out nice...I think it was called "having potential."
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GAH Geek
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The Lurking GAH Addict
Posts: 347
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Post by GAH Geek on Dec 14, 2006 22:39:35 GMT -5
I liked the flashack recollection of the old series as Bill recounts how it all got started. I also liked the "Heros are human" musical part where they showed clips from the original show. It was also kind of cool to see Ralph with a more modern hairdo and the new suit. I liked the episode up until Ralph and Pam left and it got lame. It was defiently low budget and not much of a Pilot. I Liked that part and the scenes with The Old Gang (Bill, Ralph & Pam) after that I just stoped the DVD.
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Post by billswoman on Dec 18, 2006 9:30:51 GMT -5
Y'all do know this is the section on why GAHeroine did NOT suck, right?
I think half the posts in here belong in the DID suck section.
I personally liked it as much as I do GAH....they both have their flaws, let's face it. All-in-all, I enjoyed this one hour pilot ep. Especially since it had a lot of Maxwell in it. Look at Holly from his POV... as I've said before, he thought RALPH was bad? Holly's even worse, and I think that's hysterical, that Ralph would give the suit to a goody-two-shoes like Holly.
Just like with Kevin, I think they could've done without The Brat. Couldn't stand either of them, but she was a few degrees more annoying than the disappearing Hinkley kid. Maybe they would've disappeared Sara as well (we can only hope). Send her back to the orphanage or something.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2006 11:04:01 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I can't nor do I think admins can move posts to other posts. But, from experience, it's at times easier for a reader to read words that are both upper and lowercase than it is all caps or all lowercase. I had problems reading ee cummings' poetry because he writes mostly lowercase and no punctuation. So, the NOT could be overlooked. And... GAHeroine wouldn't suck for Bill fans because Bill is in it a lot, however, I still feel he was only a shadow of himself in that particular story as much as I feel Ralph and to a point Pam were out of character to give a reason for Ralph to give up the suit. It just doesn't ring true, as even with his ego in "200MPH fastball" Ralph did snap out of the ego trip and became normal Ralph.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Dec 18, 2006 14:17:36 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I can't nor do I think admins can move posts to other posts. But, from experience, it's at times easier for a reader to read words that are both upper and lowercase than it is all caps or all lowercase. I had problems reading ee cummings' poetry because he writes mostly lowercase and no punctuation. So, the NOT could be overlooked. And... GAHeroine wouldn't suck for Bill fans because Bill is in it a lot, however, I still feel he was only a shadow of himself in that particular story as much as I feel Ralph and to a point Pam were out of character to give a reason for Ralph to give up the suit. It just doesn't ring true, as even with his ego in "200MPH fastball" Ralph did snap out of the ego trip and became normal Ralph. No, Mel...individual posts cannot be moved although that might happen with the next version of Proboards. Billswoman: I agree with you overall. I like HEROINE...not just for Bill and the like, but because it had some of the same cheesy nature as the rest of the series. Granted, the original series is better in comparison, but I have always enjoyed HEROINE to some degree as well.
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Post by MelMac on Dec 18, 2006 14:22:51 GMT -5
While I like parts of the ep, GAHeroine is cheese at times... bleu, as you like it or you don't. I'll have to watch it again soon, but I still think some of it's a little too hokey for it to be a spinoff for the series. Though, it does have some similarities to the cheese of "30 Seconds over Little Tokyo."
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GAH Geek
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The Lurking GAH Addict
Posts: 347
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Post by GAH Geek on Dec 19, 2006 0:53:59 GMT -5
lol That Girl was like a 9yr old verison of my older sister -- Annoying
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Jan 29, 2007 17:26:15 GMT -5
To me, it's all worth it for the goodbye scene.
[glow=blue,2,900]"Sometimes things don't work out like you planned..."[/glow]
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jan 29, 2007 17:40:08 GMT -5
To me, it's all worth it for the goodbye scene. [glow=blue,2,900]"Sometimes things don't work out like you planned..."[/glow] The goodbye scene IS great...and it has that element of drama and comedy that helps make it a great departure for two of the three leads and helps to introduce us to the idea that Holly could step in. I have always liked that scene too.
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Post by MelMac on Jan 29, 2007 23:41:22 GMT -5
It's one of the few things that I like about the episode. (I do like the ship's inside a little bit more than in the series, though it's a bit bright). Now, about Holly and how she could've been... well, if wishes were horses, then dreamers would ride (or fly. )
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on Jan 31, 2007 15:16:42 GMT -5
They should have given Pam 'The Suit'. DAMNIT.
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Post by jopierce on Jan 31, 2007 15:28:35 GMT -5
Is this in the right thread? Cause I think that it DID suck... IMHO.
This is a case where the logical or better alternatives (Pam getting the suit, or Ralph still being around for more adventures) was determined more by real life contractual obligations and career directions of the actors, and not the script/story itself.
Honestly, if they wanted to give it to another team, JUST TAKE IT AND START OVER!!
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Post by MelMac on Jan 31, 2007 15:57:47 GMT -5
Is this in the right thread? Cause I think that it DID suck... IMHO.
This is a case where the logical or better alternatives (Pam getting the suit, or Ralph still being around for more adventures) was determined more by real life contractual obligations and career directions of the actors, and not the script/story itself.
Honestly, if they wanted to give it to another team, JUST TAKE IT AND START OVER!!
I have to admit you have a point there. It was a bit contrived there. Ralph would've probably been helping Bill and Holly, at least short-term. I doubt that even with his five years experience he'd be able to tell Holly that fast about the suit powers. They should've either done the handover properly, or as you said, just had Ralph retire the suit off camera (but it be a good reason, not ego or he died), and handed it over to a new team. Was it possible to do either... yes, given some fanfic examples. Would it have worked?... depends on the acting, and the way Mary Ellen Stuart played Holly, that was iffy at best.
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Post by billswoman on Mar 10, 2007 6:28:37 GMT -5
... I feel Ralph and to a point Pam were out of character to give a reason for Ralph to give up the suit. It just doesn't ring true, as even with his ego in "200MPH fastball" Ralph did snap out of the ego trip and became normal Ralph. As we see Ralph in the series, he does come off as OOC in this pilot, but 3 years have gone by since we last see him. Maybe he's changed. But I think it's cool knowing how things turn out in GAHeroine (that is, if one considers it canon to GAH), esp after your example of 200MPH Fastball, and also in Don't Mess Around with Jim, when you wonder, Would our boy ever "go bad" with the suit, like JJ did? Granted, he didn't do it to make unscrupulous business transactions as JJ did; he used it for something else. (I took out "to make money," because I realized he may've also done it for that reason, with all the talk show appearances and plugs and such.) Maybe Ralph decides, once he's found out so publically, not with just a few eyewitnesses, Oh, what the heck, may as well go with it, I'm tired of fighting to keep all this hidden. Who knows? Besides, once he's found out, what could he have done to defuse the situation? All I can think of is him and Bill going to the desert, hoping the GG show up, and asking for their help.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on May 11, 2007 15:31:32 GMT -5
Well he could have done something aside from acting like a complete and total tool. LOL Love the scene with Katt 'searching' for his replacement with his shirt hanging open and his chest exposed. I wonder who suggested THAT wardrobe, Mr. Katt...
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Post by MelMac on May 11, 2007 16:01:10 GMT -5
... I feel Ralph and to a point Pam were out of character to give a reason for Ralph to give up the suit. It just doesn't ring true, as even with his ego in "200MPH fastball" Ralph did snap out of the ego trip and became normal Ralph. As we see Ralph in the series, he does come off as OOC in this pilot, but 3 years have gone by since we last see him. Maybe he's changed. But I think it's cool knowing how things turn out in GAHeroine (that is, if one considers it canon to GAH), esp after your example of 200MPH Fastball, and also in Don't Mess Around with Jim, when you wonder, Would our boy ever "go bad" with the suit, like JJ did? Granted, he didn't do it to make unscrupulous business transactions as JJ did; he used it for something else. (I took out "to make money," because I realized he may've also done it for that reason, with all the talk show appearances and plugs and such.) Maybe Ralph decides, once he's found out so publically, not with just a few eyewitnesses, Oh, what the heck, may as well go with it, I'm tired of fighting to keep all this hidden. Who knows? Besides, once he's found out, what could he have done to defuse the situation? All I can think of is him and Bill going to the desert, hoping the GG show up, and asking for their help. Regardless if Ralph'd changed, I don't think it'd be as extreme as it was there to lose the suit. But, all three characters were not their normal selves there. Going by the series, Bill'd try to talk reason with Ralph, which'd escalate into a fight and Ralph'd probably gotten some sense knocked into him - literally. The whole idea was stupid to have him lose the suit that way. As I and others have proven with spinoffs, there are better ways of doing a handover than what they did. ============== As far as Ralph's shirt and such, it might've been Katt's choice, but I've noticed with a lot of '80s shows the young men usually did that. Why... I don't know, and I'll be honest, here it did seem a little odd, but at least he was supposedly on a workout which makes sense.
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Post by Maxwell - F.B.I. on May 15, 2007 14:47:35 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Katt starting appearing in a handful of basicially 'soft core' adult films right around that time - I remember seeing him on the cover of a few of the video boxes (I used to run a video store yearssss ago) and being a little surprised he took those roles...
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